3 ms·

There's no such thing as "liquidity" in these fantasy land tokens. The absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap is indistinguishable from Forex and

There's no such thing as "liquidity" in these fantasy land tokens. The absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap is indistinguishable from Forex and flash loans, only in these fantasy tokens.

rglullis 4y ago
I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS and to spend it for real goods. All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. If you don't see the value of it, fine. But just go find someone who got their PayPal account frozen with no recourse and ask them how much they would value the ability to trade in a permissionless network.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap I didn't say "absolute vast majority of tokens". I said "absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap". > All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. There's absolutely a market for people willing to trade. If there wasn't, Amazon, eBay, AliExpress etc. wouldn't have been multi-trillion behemoths they are. Uniswap isn't a "market for people willing to trade". It's a market for people willing to engage in currency speculation and flash loans using fantasy tokens. Even you are saying this. Quote: "make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS". There's nothing new or revolutionary in this.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    You are grasping as straws. Speculation in markets are always going to exist. We have people making a living by speculating on the price of commodities, forex, company stock and event insurance policies. You calling them fantasy does not change the fact that there are people willing to trade them and does not change the fact that there is value in being able to do this without a central authority. I gave the example of Storj/BAT precisely because these are business who are paying actual money for a service (Storj is paid for those hosting data, BAT distributed by Brave as a reward for those willing to receive privacy-protecting ads). You could argue that the tokens themselves are not needed and that we could do it with cash, but that would be missing the point: such systems could not work on a worldwide scale as easily as they work now, and the speculation is a desired property of the system. Most people are getting into the network not because of the $5/month they get from seeing ads, but because of the possibility of the received tokens going up in value. At the same time, the people who do want to sell their tokens and get cash can do so.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > You are grasping as straws. I am not. I am describing the absolute vast majority of cases on Uniswap. > Speculation in markets are always going to exist. We have people making a living by speculating on the price of commodities, forex, company stock and event insurance policies. Yes, but you're effusing that currency speculation and flash loans (majority of Uniswap) is this some new grand thing that never existed before. Reality disagrees. > such systems could not work on a worldwide scale as easily as they work now Forex was (and probably still is) a huge global market. I know because my friends spent a lot of time on it in early 2000s. Global market works easily, and at scale. For much longer and at much larger scale than anything crypto maximalists can even dream of. > Most people are getting into the network not because of the $5/month they get from seeing ads, but because of the possibility of the received tokens going up in value. Yup. Pure speculation. You're pretending it's something new, novel, and hasn't ever existed before.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        > You're pretending it's something new, novel, and hasn't ever existed before. At no point I said that what makes Uniswap (or crypto in general) valuable is the speculation in itself. The value of crypto is in the ability of doing things permissionlessly. The value of Uniswap is not to that it is "better" than Forex. The value of Uniswap is that it lets people exchange value permissionlessly. The value of ENS is not that it is "better" than the ICANN. The value of ENS is that it lets people control a stable, unique, global identity permissionlessly. The value of crypto payment networks is not that it is "better" than Visa. The value of crypto payment networks is that it lets people make transactions around the world permissionlessly. The value of Storj > my friends spent a lot of time on (Forex) in early 2000s. After jumping through all the required hoops, putting together minimum deposit requirements, passing KYC to show their legal standing with who-knows how many financial authorities... but what about those people who wanted to do Forex, but failed to pass any type of requirement? What about, e.g, people in Argentina who are forced to buy and sell dollars at the totally artificial rate imposed by the government? > Global market works easily, and at scale. If it works for you, great! Plenty of people who don't have the same luck. > For much longer and at much larger scale than anything crypto maximalists can even dream of. Nice strawman you got here. Where in this conversation was there any type of "maximalist" proclamation?

rglullis 4y ago

I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS and to spend it for real goods. All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. If you don't see the value of it, fine. But just go find someone who got their PayPal account frozen with no recourse and ask them how much they would value the ability to trade in a permissionless network.

dmitriid 4y ago
> I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap I didn't say "absolute vast majority of tokens". I said "absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap". > All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. There's absolutely a market for people willing to trade. If there wasn't, Amazon, eBay, AliExpress etc. wouldn't have been multi-trillion behemoths they are. Uniswap isn't a "market for people willing to trade". It's a market for people willing to engage in currency speculation and flash loans using fantasy tokens. Even you are saying this. Quote: "make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS". There's nothing new or revolutionary in this.
- rglullis 4y ago
  You are grasping as straws. Speculation in markets are always going to exist. We have people making a living by speculating on the price of commodities, forex, company stock and event insurance policies. You calling them fantasy does not change the fact that there are people willing to trade them and does not change the fact that there is value in being able to do this without a central authority. I gave the example of Storj/BAT precisely because these are business who are paying actual money for a service (Storj is paid for those hosting data, BAT distributed by Brave as a reward for those willing to receive privacy-protecting ads). You could argue that the tokens themselves are not needed and that we could do it with cash, but that would be missing the point: such systems could not work on a worldwide scale as easily as they work now, and the speculation is a desired property of the system. Most people are getting into the network not because of the $5/month they get from seeing ads, but because of the possibility of the received tokens going up in value. At the same time, the people who do want to sell their tokens and get cash can do so.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > You are grasping as straws. I am not. I am describing the absolute vast majority of cases on Uniswap. > Speculation in markets are always going to exist. We have people making a living by speculating on the price of commodities, forex, company stock and event insurance policies. Yes, but you're effusing that currency speculation and flash loans (majority of Uniswap) is this some new grand thing that never existed before. Reality disagrees. > such systems could not work on a worldwide scale as easily as they work now Forex was (and probably still is) a huge global market. I know because my friends spent a lot of time on it in early 2000s. Global market works easily, and at scale. For much longer and at much larger scale than anything crypto maximalists can even dream of. > Most people are getting into the network not because of the $5/month they get from seeing ads, but because of the possibility of the received tokens going up in value. Yup. Pure speculation. You're pretending it's something new, novel, and hasn't ever existed before.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      > You're pretending it's something new, novel, and hasn't ever existed before. At no point I said that what makes Uniswap (or crypto in general) valuable is the speculation in itself. The value of crypto is in the ability of doing things permissionlessly. The value of Uniswap is not to that it is "better" than Forex. The value of Uniswap is that it lets people exchange value permissionlessly. The value of ENS is not that it is "better" than the ICANN. The value of ENS is that it lets people control a stable, unique, global identity permissionlessly. The value of crypto payment networks is not that it is "better" than Visa. The value of crypto payment networks is that it lets people make transactions around the world permissionlessly. The value of Storj > my friends spent a lot of time on (Forex) in early 2000s. After jumping through all the required hoops, putting together minimum deposit requirements, passing KYC to show their legal standing with who-knows how many financial authorities... but what about those people who wanted to do Forex, but failed to pass any type of requirement? What about, e.g, people in Argentina who are forced to buy and sell dollars at the totally artificial rate imposed by the government? > Global market works easily, and at scale. If it works for you, great! Plenty of people who don't have the same luck. > For much longer and at much larger scale than anything crypto maximalists can even dream of. Nice strawman you got here. Where in this conversation was there any type of "maximalist" proclamation?