6 ms·

> > It is location and time-dependent... > Conservatism, in the American political sense Which is exactly the parent's point.

by Aeolos 4y ago

RhysU 4y ago
Hamburgers, in the GUI sense, are a UI element. I don't see how contextualizing an overloaded word ("conservatism") weakens what I quoted. Those principles are independent.
- doctor_eval 4y ago
  You said, > one letter-writer gave a nicely time-and-space-independent definition But the quote you gave was specifically American, i.e. not independent of either space or (technically) time.
  - RhysU 4y ago
    Aye, but "classical liberalism" is another term for those principles that goes back hundreds of years on both sides of the Atlantic [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke
    - doctor_eval 4y ago
      Ahh, that page says Burke was a conservative, and nothing about him reads to me as classical liberal. Indeed, > Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism that advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; civil liberties under the rule of law with especial emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government [0] While your link says, > Burke was a proponent of underpinning virtues with manners in society and of the importance of religious institutions for the moral stability and good of the state. While not entirely orthogonal, these political positions are also not fully compatible. In particular, religion almost always impinges on individual liberties - especially bodily autonomy. And Burke clearly supported a state that classical liberals would have wanted to tear down. Anyway I think that’s enough responding to non-sequiturs for today. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
yodsanklai 4y ago
A more universal definition would be > commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation (from Apple dictionary)
- RhysU 4y ago
  From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism: "a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change. specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs" No wonder the kids these days have knee-jerk reactions to "conservatism" when Apple hands out such balderdash and people accept Apple's word as gospel.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    > No wonder the kids these days have knee-jerk reactions to "conservatism" Is it really a surprise after taking away fundamental bodily autonomy from half of the population? That is a government overreach, if anything.
    - dane-pgp 4y ago
      Depending on your philosophical leanings, banning abortion actually grants bodily autonomy to the entirety of the not-yet-born population. I'm not expecting you to accept that philosophical position, but I hope it explains how the governmental policy is only an overreach to the extent that a particular unprovable and unfalsifiable philosophical position is correct.
      - kaba0 4y ago
        I don’t know, is an unborn fetus an American citizen? Because the mother definitely is, right now, without any doubt - and pregnancy is a very dangerous, sometimes even lethal state, with long-term serious health problems. I don’t see any defensible arguments to strip bodily autonomy from a current citizen, it’s not a zero sum game (I’m sure you can create some ad absurdum situation where stripping someone of their rights “for the greater good” turns out very nightmarish). These matters should only be discussed by the mother and her doctor, that’s it.

> > It is location and time-dependent... > Conservatism, in the American political sense Which is exactly the parent's point.

by Aeolos 4y ago

> > It is location and time-dependent... > Conservatism, in the American political sense Which is exactly the parent's point.

RhysU 4y ago

Hamburgers, in the GUI sense, are a UI element. I don't see how contextualizing an overloaded word ("conservatism") weakens what I quoted. Those principles are independent.

doctor_eval 4y ago
You said, > one letter-writer gave a nicely time-and-space-independent definition But the quote you gave was specifically American, i.e. not independent of either space or (technically) time.
- RhysU 4y ago
  Aye, but "classical liberalism" is another term for those principles that goes back hundreds of years on both sides of the Atlantic [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke
  - doctor_eval 4y ago
    Ahh, that page says Burke was a conservative, and nothing about him reads to me as classical liberal. Indeed, > Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism that advocates free market and laissez-faire economics; civil liberties under the rule of law with especial emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government [0] While your link says, > Burke was a proponent of underpinning virtues with manners in society and of the importance of religious institutions for the moral stability and good of the state. While not entirely orthogonal, these political positions are also not fully compatible. In particular, religion almost always impinges on individual liberties - especially bodily autonomy. And Burke clearly supported a state that classical liberals would have wanted to tear down. Anyway I think that’s enough responding to non-sequiturs for today. [0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

yodsanklai 4y ago

A more universal definition would be > commitment to traditional values and ideas with opposition to change or innovation (from Apple dictionary)

RhysU 4y ago
From https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/conservatism: "a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change. specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs" No wonder the kids these days have knee-jerk reactions to "conservatism" when Apple hands out such balderdash and people accept Apple's word as gospel.
- kaba0 4y ago
  > No wonder the kids these days have knee-jerk reactions to "conservatism" Is it really a surprise after taking away fundamental bodily autonomy from half of the population? That is a government overreach, if anything.
  - dane-pgp 4y ago
    Depending on your philosophical leanings, banning abortion actually grants bodily autonomy to the entirety of the not-yet-born population. I'm not expecting you to accept that philosophical position, but I hope it explains how the governmental policy is only an overreach to the extent that a particular unprovable and unfalsifiable philosophical position is correct.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      I don’t know, is an unborn fetus an American citizen? Because the mother definitely is, right now, without any doubt - and pregnancy is a very dangerous, sometimes even lethal state, with long-term serious health problems. I don’t see any defensible arguments to strip bodily autonomy from a current citizen, it’s not a zero sum game (I’m sure you can create some ad absurdum situation where stripping someone of their rights “for the greater good” turns out very nightmarish). These matters should only be discussed by the mother and her doctor, that’s it.