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I think it's almost impossible unless you start a business yourself and run it without hierarchies, and with everyone involved being treated as as an end in the
by mathieuh 4y ago
I think it's almost impossible unless you start a business yourself and run it without hierarchies, and with everyone involved being treated as as an end in themselves and not just a means to increase the company value. If I ever make enough money (unlikely), it's a quiet fantasy of mine to start a small company in this model.
Personally I will never work in e.g. finance or "defence", but even where I work now could be seen as encouraging throw-away consumerism. It was a very serious consideration of mine when I was looking for a new job. I ruled myself out of some interviews halfway through because I could tell that their product would have rubbed against my morals eventually.
Sometimes I feel like a mug for following my convictions like this. I will never be a manager, I will never invest in the stock market, and I will never own more property than I can use myself.
- jasfi 4y agoThat's interesting because one of my projects is a crypto trader, which I plan to one day extend to stocks. Many people seem to see such a project in a negative light, particularly those who have never been into trading. However my aim is to help prevent people from losing money and thoroughly test strategies before trading any real money. In such a case it's really about preconceived notions.
- mathieuh 4y agoI don't know too much about crypto, it doesn't really interest me and I've never bothered to find out more about it. It does seem to be some right-wing libertarian thing so reflexively I'm suspicious, but some of the claimed ideals appeal to me as an anarchist. I refuse to invest in stocks because that would mean (potentially) profiting from the exploitation of the workers in that company. I suppose if I were awarded stocks in the company I work for that might be different, I'd need to think about it more.
- jasfi 4y agoCrypto can also be viewed as assets to buy and sell for a profit, and nothing more. I know it can get more complicated, but it doesn't have to. Regarding stocks, you can often be assured that public companies are held to a high standard, especially in western countries where the press reports on exploitation.
- daviross 4y ago"viewed as assets to buy and sell for a profit, and nothing more." I'm not sure this act in itself is morally neutral, imo. There's reasons ethical concerns about objectification (in the older 'treating something/one as an object' formulation of it) pop up not-infrequently through time. Reducing something to a market view of itself is a choice. Similarly, seeing something as being more complicated but turning away because 'it doesn't have to be'. Now, I'm not trying to suggest you should take up my concerns here. I'm not saying "you're terrible for this!" in any way. It's just an interesting springboard of a question, what do we see as 'morally neutral' and what has moral salience?
- jasfi 4y agoYou can do many different things with crypto, it's up to you to decide what to do with it. Trading crypto is immediately useful, but you have to know the risks, which can be difficult. But that's not my only view. E.g. Ethereum and what it can be used for is still interesting to me, but not immediately of any use to me either.
- RhysU 4y ago> Personally I will never work in e.g. finance or "defence" Finance: Get people enough capital so they can do what they want Defense: Keep people safe enough so they can do what they want I don't see the basic premise of these two industries as being evil. Of course, participants can go off the rails but so can any company.
- mathieuh 4y agoI'm an anarchist (think left-wing libertarian) so I see those two industries as particular offenders in furthering the aims of capital. It's a pretty easy decision to exclude those industries with that perspective, which I'm aware not everyone shares. I just couldn't justify working in those areas myself.
- Planktonne 4y agoYour 'basic' premises are quite loaded, with an emphasis on personal freedom that's not actually inherent to either industry. Here's another (equally biased) framing: Finance: increase abstract 'value' no matter the practical cost. Defence: invent more efficient ways to cause harm.
- RhysU 4y agoAny industry permits an uncharitable reading: Medicine: Keep them alive long enough to take all their money. Search: Sell them things they don't need Self-driving cars: Delay societal investment in sustainable transportation Retail: Pointless fashion for the masses Agriculture: Make as many as fat as possible We should look at the best that any industry can provide and then strive for that instead of assuming evil is inherent.
- badcppdev 4y agoI have been opposed to working for defence as a general principle but the Pandemic has change my view. My logic is that humans need to be safe to a certain degree (and I admit that the perception of safety is totally subjective) I like safety from viral disease therefore I'm a fan of vaccines and masks. I like personal safety in my day to day environment therefore I'm a fan of a well funded society with mental healthcare and appropriately funded social services and police. I'm personally invested in the current system of sovereign countries/states and I believe that without controlling borders you can't really have a country. So I now believe that a well funded military is sadly still necessary. Talk about getting less left wing as you get older :-/ But I still 100% agree about not working for certain companies. Short term high interest consumer loans and any type of gambling are on my black list.
- moloch-hai 4y agoAdtech should be, too, then. Any kind of cryptobux is on the gambling list.