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> This helps to coordinate human and financial capital, because rules can be programmed in the DAO or multisig "Rules can be programmed (in esoteric programmin

> This helps to coordinate human and financial capital, because rules can be programmed in the DAO or multisig "Rules can be programmed (in esoteric programming languages using new made up terms for everything)" and frictionless in one sentence. Smh.

chrisco255 4y ago
Very simple explanation: imagine you want to start a software company with 5 people you met on the internet. You each live in 5 different countries. How do you decide who holds the treasury? How do you decide which jurisdiction to register a partnership agreement in? There's a lot of friction there. And a lot of trust involved. Even if one person takes it upon themselves, the other 4 members have to trust the 1 guy in charge of the legal org & bank account won't rug pull on them and run off with the money or spend it needlessly. With a multisig smart contract wallet (https://gnosis-safe.io/ https://gnosis-safe.io/), it's frictionless to setup a simple smart contract for holding the treasury and for enacting M-of-N rules on any expenditures from that multisig. This may be a 3 of 5 signature requirement or even a 5 of 5 signature requirement. It's fully programmable. So when starting a Web3 project, it's possible to jump into a partnership with a group and be productive without having to worry as much about establishing trust, navigating five different jurisdictions for employment agreements, or centralizing control in a single person. In addition, far more elaborate org structures are possible, and there exist plenty of tooling for making those happen without even needing to know how to code (https://juicebox.money/ https://juicebox.money/, https://daohaus.club/ https://daohaus.club/). Solidity is not all that esoteric. It's similar in syntax to JavaScript, but it's statically typed. There are also widely recognized and audited open source code bases to build off of (https://www.openzeppelin.com/contracts https://www.openzeppelin.com/contracts). And tons of developer tooling (https://docs.ethers.io/v5/ https://docs.ethers.io/v5/, https://wagmi.sh/ https://wagmi.sh/), along with countless resources on the web.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > Very simple explanation: imagine you want to start a software company with 5 people you met on the internet. This is sufficiently rare that "traditional" finance hasn't come up with a product for that. Or maybe it has, but it's just as obscure as Gnosis. > It's fully programmable. You keep saying this as if this was a desirable quality. > Solidity is not all that esoteric. It's similar in syntax to JavaScript It doesn't make it not esoteric. It doesn't make it Javascript. It's its own language with its own idiosyncrasies, its own lingo, its own terminology (so much of the terminology in the crypto space is just absolutely random bullshit people came up on the spot for things that already exist in the language). There are no tools, no way to debug, no way to revert a deployment, no way to upgrade a "contract" etc. And it's so bad that repeated audits and bug hunts routinely fail to find issues in the code of even the simplest contracts.
  - chrisco255 4y ago
    > This is sufficiently rare that "traditional" finance hasn't come up with a product for that. Or maybe it has, but it's just as obscure as Gnosis. Traditional finance doesn't have an answer for this. It's not rare at all. I personally work with people from Argentina, Denmark, Canada, Serbia, Croatia, Australia and Hong Kong. It's very common to work in a fully distributed online manner, using chat products to communicate. It's very easy to meet people in online hackathons, on Discord servers, on gaming platforms, etc these days, from all over the world. Yes, programmability is always superior to non-programmability, as it is a superset of non-programmability. After all, you could always encode whatever non-configurable properties you wanted as part of the ruleset for the contract or asset. > It doesn't make it not esoteric. There are no tools, no way to debug, no way to revert a deployment, no way to upgrade a "contract" etc. At this point Solidity is 7 years old. There are more than 200K developers that have learned it (50K from ETHGlobal hackathons alone: https://ethglobal.com/ https://ethglobal.com/), 20K stars on Github, 44 million smart contracts have been deployed to ETH mainnet, 60K people watched Devcon Colombia vids a couple weeks ago (6K attended in person), 20K attended ETHDenver earlier this year, etc. There's tons of tools: Hardhat (https://hardhat.org/ https://hardhat.org/) - for JS based task running, deployment, testing, debugging, etc. Even deploys a local chain or allows you to fork a copy of mainnet locally to test against. Foundry (https://getfoundry.sh/ https://getfoundry.sh/) - if you want to run your build/test/debug tool-chain in Solidity WAGMI (https://wagmi.sh/ https://wagmi.sh/) - Robust React hooks for client-side interactions with smart contracts Ethers.js (https://docs.ethers.io/v5/ https://docs.ethers.io/v5/) - Client side lib for interacting with Solidity primitives like 256 bit numbers Block Explorers like https://etherscan.io/ https://etherscan.io/ or https://beaconcha.in/ https://beaconcha.in/ In the pareto distribution of smart contracts, the most consequential contracts get the most eyeballs, and after they've been deployed for years without hacks, in spite of holding billions in user funds, you can be reasonably assured of their security. If not, I invite you to use your superior powers of analysis to find a bug in: Uniswap V3: https://github.com/Uniswap/v3-core https://github.com/Uniswap/v3-core (Currently open $2.2M bug bounty plus additional $3M reward for the Universal Router and Permit2 contracts https://uniswap.org/bug-bounty https://uniswap.org/bug-bounty) Or Aave V3: https://docs.aave.com/developers/deployed-contracts/security-and-audits https://docs.aave.com/developers/deployed-contracts/security..., which has been audited by ABDK, OpenZeppelin, Trail of Bits, Peckshield, and SigmaPrime (up to $250K for critical bugs: https://github.com/aave/bug-bounty https://github.com/aave/bug-bounty). Also, see: https://docs.openzeppelin.com/learn/upgrading-smart-contracts https://docs.openzeppelin.com/learn/upgrading-smart-contract... about upgrading smart contracts. Not always desirable, but of course, entirely possible, thanks to the proxy pattern. There's also the alternative of doing "migrations" by wrapping an asset in another contract.

chrisco255 4y ago

Very simple explanation: imagine you want to start a software company with 5 people you met on the internet. You each live in 5 different countries. How do you decide who holds the treasury? How do you decide which jurisdiction to register a partnership agreement in? There's a lot of friction there. And a lot of trust involved. Even if one person takes it upon themselves, the other 4 members have to trust the 1 guy in charge of the legal org & bank account won't rug pull on them and run off with the money or spend it needlessly. With a multisig smart contract wallet (https://gnosis-safe.io/ https://gnosis-safe.io/), it's frictionless to setup a simple smart contract for holding the treasury and for enacting M-of-N rules on any expenditures from that multisig. This may be a 3 of 5 signature requirement or even a 5 of 5 signature requirement. It's fully programmable. So when starting a Web3 project, it's possible to jump into a partnership with a group and be productive without having to worry as much about establishing trust, navigating five different jurisdictions for employment agreements, or centralizing control in a single person. In addition, far more elaborate org structures are possible, and there exist plenty of tooling for making those happen without even needing to know how to code (https://juicebox.money/ https://juicebox.money/, https://daohaus.club/ https://daohaus.club/). Solidity is not all that esoteric. It's similar in syntax to JavaScript, but it's statically typed. There are also widely recognized and audited open source code bases to build off of (https://www.openzeppelin.com/contracts https://www.openzeppelin.com/contracts). And tons of developer tooling (https://docs.ethers.io/v5/ https://docs.ethers.io/v5/, https://wagmi.sh/ https://wagmi.sh/), along with countless resources on the web.

dmitriid 4y ago
> Very simple explanation: imagine you want to start a software company with 5 people you met on the internet. This is sufficiently rare that "traditional" finance hasn't come up with a product for that. Or maybe it has, but it's just as obscure as Gnosis. > It's fully programmable. You keep saying this as if this was a desirable quality. > Solidity is not all that esoteric. It's similar in syntax to JavaScript It doesn't make it not esoteric. It doesn't make it Javascript. It's its own language with its own idiosyncrasies, its own lingo, its own terminology (so much of the terminology in the crypto space is just absolutely random bullshit people came up on the spot for things that already exist in the language). There are no tools, no way to debug, no way to revert a deployment, no way to upgrade a "contract" etc. And it's so bad that repeated audits and bug hunts routinely fail to find issues in the code of even the simplest contracts.
- chrisco255 4y ago
  > This is sufficiently rare that "traditional" finance hasn't come up with a product for that. Or maybe it has, but it's just as obscure as Gnosis. Traditional finance doesn't have an answer for this. It's not rare at all. I personally work with people from Argentina, Denmark, Canada, Serbia, Croatia, Australia and Hong Kong. It's very common to work in a fully distributed online manner, using chat products to communicate. It's very easy to meet people in online hackathons, on Discord servers, on gaming platforms, etc these days, from all over the world. Yes, programmability is always superior to non-programmability, as it is a superset of non-programmability. After all, you could always encode whatever non-configurable properties you wanted as part of the ruleset for the contract or asset. > It doesn't make it not esoteric. There are no tools, no way to debug, no way to revert a deployment, no way to upgrade a "contract" etc. At this point Solidity is 7 years old. There are more than 200K developers that have learned it (50K from ETHGlobal hackathons alone: https://ethglobal.com/ https://ethglobal.com/), 20K stars on Github, 44 million smart contracts have been deployed to ETH mainnet, 60K people watched Devcon Colombia vids a couple weeks ago (6K attended in person), 20K attended ETHDenver earlier this year, etc. There's tons of tools: Hardhat (https://hardhat.org/ https://hardhat.org/) - for JS based task running, deployment, testing, debugging, etc. Even deploys a local chain or allows you to fork a copy of mainnet locally to test against. Foundry (https://getfoundry.sh/ https://getfoundry.sh/) - if you want to run your build/test/debug tool-chain in Solidity WAGMI (https://wagmi.sh/ https://wagmi.sh/) - Robust React hooks for client-side interactions with smart contracts Ethers.js (https://docs.ethers.io/v5/ https://docs.ethers.io/v5/) - Client side lib for interacting with Solidity primitives like 256 bit numbers Block Explorers like https://etherscan.io/ https://etherscan.io/ or https://beaconcha.in/ https://beaconcha.in/ In the pareto distribution of smart contracts, the most consequential contracts get the most eyeballs, and after they've been deployed for years without hacks, in spite of holding billions in user funds, you can be reasonably assured of their security. If not, I invite you to use your superior powers of analysis to find a bug in: Uniswap V3: https://github.com/Uniswap/v3-core https://github.com/Uniswap/v3-core (Currently open $2.2M bug bounty plus additional $3M reward for the Universal Router and Permit2 contracts https://uniswap.org/bug-bounty https://uniswap.org/bug-bounty) Or Aave V3: https://docs.aave.com/developers/deployed-contracts/security-and-audits https://docs.aave.com/developers/deployed-contracts/security..., which has been audited by ABDK, OpenZeppelin, Trail of Bits, Peckshield, and SigmaPrime (up to $250K for critical bugs: https://github.com/aave/bug-bounty https://github.com/aave/bug-bounty). Also, see: https://docs.openzeppelin.com/learn/upgrading-smart-contracts https://docs.openzeppelin.com/learn/upgrading-smart-contract... about upgrading smart contracts. Not always desirable, but of course, entirely possible, thanks to the proxy pattern. There's also the alternative of doing "migrations" by wrapping an asset in another contract.