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> The value of decentralized platforms is that it gets rid of the tech bros and financial scams. Ah yes. No scams or tech bros. Except the implicit blind trust

> The value of decentralized platforms is that it gets rid of the tech bros and financial scams. Ah yes. No scams or tech bros. Except the implicit blind trust in programs written in esoteric programming languages on esoteric VMs that are rife with financial scams. > If people transacted using DeFI, there would be no FTX, no Coinbase, no VC trying to leech off the masses. Except that Uniswap is currently almost 100% automated bots "swapping" fictional tokens. And for anything useful you depend on centralized oracles. And for anything related to actual real world you must go through centralized entities.

lamp987 4y ago
"And for anything useful you depend on centralized oracles." chainlink etc
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > chainlink etc Which are entirely dependent on centralised oracles etc. Hint: if there are only 2/5/10 centralised oracles providing you with data, no amount of fluffy "decentralised tamper-proof inputs" statements make them such.
rglullis 4y ago
> almost 100% automated bots "swapping" fictional tokens. Even if that was true (which it is not) it is still valuable for the people that use it and for the liquidity providers who can employ their capital in a reasonably safe manner without relying on banks.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  There's no such thing as "liquidity" in these fantasy land tokens. The absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap is indistinguishable from Forex and flash loans, only in these fantasy tokens.
  - rglullis 4y ago
    I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS and to spend it for real goods. All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. If you don't see the value of it, fine. But just go find someone who got their PayPal account frozen with no recourse and ask them how much they would value the ability to trade in a permissionless network.
    - dmitriid 4y ago
      > I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap I didn't say "absolute vast majority of tokens". I said "absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap". > All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. There's absolutely a market for people willing to trade. If there wasn't, Amazon, eBay, AliExpress etc. wouldn't have been multi-trillion behemoths they are. Uniswap isn't a "market for people willing to trade". It's a market for people willing to engage in currency speculation and flash loans using fantasy tokens. Even you are saying this. Quote: "make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS". There's nothing new or revolutionary in this.
      - rglullis 4y ago
        You are grasping as straws. Speculation in markets are always going to exist. We have people making a living by speculating on the price of commodities, forex, company stock and event insurance policies. You calling them fantasy does not change the fact that there are people willing to trade them and does not change the fact that there is value in being able to do this without a central authority. I gave the example of Storj/BAT precisely because these are business who are paying actual money for a service (Storj is paid for those hosting data, BAT distributed by Brave as a reward for those willing to receive privacy-protecting ads). You could argue that the tokens themselves are not needed and that we could do it with cash, but that would be missing the point: such systems could not work on a worldwide scale as easily as they work now, and the speculation is a desired property of the system. Most people are getting into the network not because of the $5/month they get from seeing ads, but because of the possibility of the received tokens going up in value. At the same time, the people who do want to sell their tokens and get cash can do so.

lamp987 4y ago

"And for anything useful you depend on centralized oracles." chainlink etc

dmitriid 4y ago
> chainlink etc Which are entirely dependent on centralised oracles etc. Hint: if there are only 2/5/10 centralised oracles providing you with data, no amount of fluffy "decentralised tamper-proof inputs" statements make them such.

rglullis 4y ago

> almost 100% automated bots "swapping" fictional tokens. Even if that was true (which it is not) it is still valuable for the people that use it and for the liquidity providers who can employ their capital in a reasonably safe manner without relying on banks.

dmitriid 4y ago
There's no such thing as "liquidity" in these fantasy land tokens. The absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap is indistinguishable from Forex and flash loans, only in these fantasy tokens.
- rglullis 4y ago
  I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS and to spend it for real goods. All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. If you don't see the value of it, fine. But just go find someone who got their PayPal account frozen with no recourse and ask them how much they would value the ability to trade in a permissionless network.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    > I don't need to care about the "absolute vast majority" of the tokens to make use of Uniswap I didn't say "absolute vast majority of tokens". I said "absolute vast majority of things happening on uniswap". > All I need is to have a market of people willing to trade. There's absolutely a market for people willing to trade. If there wasn't, Amazon, eBay, AliExpress etc. wouldn't have been multi-trillion behemoths they are. Uniswap isn't a "market for people willing to trade". It's a market for people willing to engage in currency speculation and flash loans using fantasy tokens. Even you are saying this. Quote: "make use of Uniswap to exchange, e.g, Storj/BAT/ETH for DAI/USDC/EURS". There's nothing new or revolutionary in this.
    - rglullis 4y ago
      You are grasping as straws. Speculation in markets are always going to exist. We have people making a living by speculating on the price of commodities, forex, company stock and event insurance policies. You calling them fantasy does not change the fact that there are people willing to trade them and does not change the fact that there is value in being able to do this without a central authority. I gave the example of Storj/BAT precisely because these are business who are paying actual money for a service (Storj is paid for those hosting data, BAT distributed by Brave as a reward for those willing to receive privacy-protecting ads). You could argue that the tokens themselves are not needed and that we could do it with cash, but that would be missing the point: such systems could not work on a worldwide scale as easily as they work now, and the speculation is a desired property of the system. Most people are getting into the network not because of the $5/month they get from seeing ads, but because of the possibility of the received tokens going up in value. At the same time, the people who do want to sell their tokens and get cash can do so.