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> Based only my viewings, it seems there are a lot of Russians scared that America will take over Russia and that they have to win the war. Well, if I was talk

> Based only my viewings, it seems there are a lot of Russians scared that America will take over Russia and that they have to win the war. Well, if I was talking with one of those Russians, I wonder how they think the 2 pathways would pan out. If Putin hadn't invaded, I think NATO would've left Putin/Russia alone and be satisfied with the status quo (with Putin supplying cheap energy to Europe, who cares if he's a corrupt jackass in his own country). Now that invasion has happened and no time machines, what would a Putin victory look like? Even if he conquers Ukraine, the sanctions won't stop, i.e. even if the Ukranians laid down their arms, that would just end the shooting war but not the economic one. Meanwhile, what would defeat look like? Even if Russia laid down their arms and left Ukraine, the economic sanctions won't stop either, until..? A Putin regime change? NATO wouldn't be satisfied if he just got a puppet to replace him. Meanwhile for the average Russian, Putin not being in power would be like what this article portrays - separatist conflicts; or Russia being under Western (or Chinese?) control. So I can see why they'd prefer a NATO surrender rather than a Putin surrender...

avmich 4y ago
It's hard to deduce they'd prefer a NATO surrender. First, they won't tell - and some even don't have enough time/will/ability to make an opinion. Second, that opinion will change in an instant, as soon as NATO surrender will demonstrate its benefits. And even if not, almost all of them will mostly complain privately, rather than do anything. Russia's society is very atomized.
JumpCrisscross 4y ago
> Even if Russia laid down their arms and left Ukraine, the economic sanctions won't stop either, until..? If Putin walked back troops even to just the pre-2022 borders and ceased bombing Ukraine, he could get most sanctions reversed. If he withdrew from all but Crimes, he could negotiate an end to special arms shipments to Ukraine.
- netsharc 4y ago
  I'm aware don't know what I'm talking about, but are you sure it's that simple? I feel the EU leaders would fear looking() weak/appeasing Putin/giving him time, money and access to resources to rebuild a war machinery, so, is "sanctions reversal" and not giving Ukraine defense really on the table? Only if Putin is badly beaten would the surrender be accepted as genuine, nowadays no one in NATO believes that he'll keep his promises. IMO of course. in front of the public, the opposition parties, and all the media pundits.
  - _kbh_ 4y ago
    I don't think it's that simple I think you are right on the money. The Russians have too many times just gone back on their word or broken international agreements just because it favoured them.

avmich 4y ago

It's hard to deduce they'd prefer a NATO surrender. First, they won't tell - and some even don't have enough time/will/ability to make an opinion. Second, that opinion will change in an instant, as soon as NATO surrender will demonstrate its benefits. And even if not, almost all of them will mostly complain privately, rather than do anything. Russia's society is very atomized.

JumpCrisscross 4y ago

> Even if Russia laid down their arms and left Ukraine, the economic sanctions won't stop either, until..? If Putin walked back troops even to just the pre-2022 borders and ceased bombing Ukraine, he could get most sanctions reversed. If he withdrew from all but Crimes, he could negotiate an end to special arms shipments to Ukraine.

netsharc 4y ago
I'm aware don't know what I'm talking about, but are you sure it's that simple? I feel the EU leaders would fear looking() weak/appeasing Putin/giving him time, money and access to resources to rebuild a war machinery, so, is "sanctions reversal" and not giving Ukraine defense really on the table? Only if Putin is badly beaten would the surrender be accepted as genuine, nowadays no one in NATO believes that he'll keep his promises. IMO of course. in front of the public, the opposition parties, and all the media pundits.
- _kbh_ 4y ago
  I don't think it's that simple I think you are right on the money. The Russians have too many times just gone back on their word or broken international agreements just because it favoured them.