4 ms·

Pretty much every functioning democracy in the world has a national ID system, because that's how any functioning country works. The US is not special in that r

Pretty much every functioning democracy in the world has a national ID system, because that's how any functioning country works. The US is not special in that regard. In fact, most major countries in the world without an ID system are... all former colonies of the UK. But I guess you can keep on being scared of leaking your SSN (that everyone unofficially uses as an ID anyways) and keep on using different cards depending on the state. There's a reason identity theft is so prevalent in the US, and pretty much nowhere else in the world.

bananapub 4y ago
> Pretty much every functioning democracy in the world has a national ID system, is that true? I know Australia, UK, Ireland, US, don't have a national ID, while almost all EU countries do. What does it look like elsewhere?
Godel_unicode 4y ago
> identity theft is so prevalent in the US, and pretty much nowhere else in the world. That’s decidedly untrue. https://focusonbusiness.eu/en/news/one-in-five-europeans-have-experienced-identity-theft-fraud/3439 https://focusonbusiness.eu/en/news/one-in-five-europeans-hav...
- sofixa 4y ago
  I don't see their methodology but this sounds absurd. Half of UK's citizens have experienced identity fraud? Highly suspicious numbers.
- lxgr 4y ago
  The consequences of identity theft in many EU countries are dramatically less severe than in the US, though. This is mostly due to not using a short, immutable identifier (like the US SSN) effectively as a bearer token, as far as I can tell. Even getting a copy (or even the original!) of somebody's passport or driver's license is not enough to open a bank account or a credit card in many EU countries; in Germany, you need to actually appear in front of a bank employee (or subcontractor), personally or in a video chat, verify your identity, and confirm your intention to open a new account.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    The downsides to identity fraud come from letting the parties that are defrauded push the problem onto an uninvolved third party. It should be easy to tell a bank to screw off when they issue a fraudulent account, it isn't the named parties fault that the bank wasn't diligent.
WirelessGigabit 4y ago
Living in the USA not having to carry an ID all the time is a breath of fresh air. Not having to call the cops to tell them I moved to that their records are up to date and so that they can come to my place of residence to see whether I actually live there is a breath of fresh air. I don't want to government to know that much about me. It has been proven over and over that less is better.
- outworlder 4y ago
  > Not having to call the cops to tell them I moved to that their records are up to date and so that they can come to my place of residence to see whether I actually live there is a breath of fresh air. Eh. In most states you are required to get a new DL if you move. So, in fact, you have to tell the state where you live. Whereas with a national ID, that wouldn't be tied to a place of residence.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Whereas with a national ID, that wouldn’t be tied to a place of residence. Why would you assume that? our current substitute for a national ID (state issued ID compliant with the federal REAL ID Act) requires current address, and has higher standards for proof of address than many pre-REAL ID state IDs did.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      My passport and global entry card do not require a physical address. Just give me a US version of Estonia’s identity smart card and make it work with Login.gov.
    - everforward 4y ago
      Can't reply to toomuchtodo so dropping this here; your passport is tied to your address via your SSN which is tied to tax returns. They frankly probably know where you live better than the state you reside in. I know lots of people that haven't updated the address on their driver's license, but I don't know anyone that gives the IRS an incorrect address.

bananapub 4y ago

> Pretty much every functioning democracy in the world has a national ID system, is that true? I know Australia, UK, Ireland, US, don't have a national ID, while almost all EU countries do. What does it look like elsewhere?

Godel_unicode 4y ago

> identity theft is so prevalent in the US, and pretty much nowhere else in the world. That’s decidedly untrue. https://focusonbusiness.eu/en/news/one-in-five-europeans-have-experienced-identity-theft-fraud/3439 https://focusonbusiness.eu/en/news/one-in-five-europeans-hav...

sofixa 4y ago
I don't see their methodology but this sounds absurd. Half of UK's citizens have experienced identity fraud? Highly suspicious numbers.
lxgr 4y ago
The consequences of identity theft in many EU countries are dramatically less severe than in the US, though. This is mostly due to not using a short, immutable identifier (like the US SSN) effectively as a bearer token, as far as I can tell. Even getting a copy (or even the original!) of somebody's passport or driver's license is not enough to open a bank account or a credit card in many EU countries; in Germany, you need to actually appear in front of a bank employee (or subcontractor), personally or in a video chat, verify your identity, and confirm your intention to open a new account.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  The downsides to identity fraud come from letting the parties that are defrauded push the problem onto an uninvolved third party. It should be easy to tell a bank to screw off when they issue a fraudulent account, it isn't the named parties fault that the bank wasn't diligent.

WirelessGigabit 4y ago

Living in the USA not having to carry an ID all the time is a breath of fresh air. Not having to call the cops to tell them I moved to that their records are up to date and so that they can come to my place of residence to see whether I actually live there is a breath of fresh air. I don't want to government to know that much about me. It has been proven over and over that less is better.

outworlder 4y ago
> Not having to call the cops to tell them I moved to that their records are up to date and so that they can come to my place of residence to see whether I actually live there is a breath of fresh air. Eh. In most states you are required to get a new DL if you move. So, in fact, you have to tell the state where you live. Whereas with a national ID, that wouldn't be tied to a place of residence.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > Whereas with a national ID, that wouldn’t be tied to a place of residence. Why would you assume that? our current substitute for a national ID (state issued ID compliant with the federal REAL ID Act) requires current address, and has higher standards for proof of address than many pre-REAL ID state IDs did.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    My passport and global entry card do not require a physical address. Just give me a US version of Estonia’s identity smart card and make it work with Login.gov.
  - everforward 4y ago
    Can't reply to toomuchtodo so dropping this here; your passport is tied to your address via your SSN which is tied to tax returns. They frankly probably know where you live better than the state you reside in. I know lots of people that haven't updated the address on their driver's license, but I don't know anyone that gives the IRS an incorrect address.