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So what’s the purpose of keeping your photo ID from the same government that already has that information? They already know every time that you get on a flight

So what’s the purpose of keeping your photo ID from the same government that already has that information? They already know every time that you get on a flight.

marssaxman 4y ago
Who's talking about keeping government-issued photo ID away from the government? I was talking about the new facial recognition system being discussed in the linked article. I'd prefer not to use it, because I don't trust the people operating it.
- scarface74 4y ago
  You don’t trust the TSA. But you do trust the other parts of the same government? What can the TSA do with your face that every other part of the government can’t do? The TSA can already put you on a “no fly list” and detect when you board a commercial airline regardless of whether you give them your photo ID. Do you think they are unable to get your picture from your passport or your RealID enabled driver’s license? In other words, the only way to get around the TSA is not to fly. The only way to get around the government not being able to use facial recognition is not to have a driver’s license or a passport. What’s the threat model you believe you are protecting yourself from by having just one part of the federal government not having your photo ID to do facial recognition?
  - marssaxman 4y ago
    > But you do trust the other parts of the same government? Not especially, no. > What can the TSA do with your face that every other part of the government can’t do? I don't know, but I'm sure we'll all be reading about whatever they come up with ten years from now, when the scandal breaks and someone sues them over it. Your argument appears to be, "the TSA already has the power to abuse you, so you should just give them whatever they want, whenever they want it". But why? What do I have to gain by cooperating with them? Of course I will give them nothing more than I am forced to. Why do you keep talking about photo IDs? I am talking about facial scanners, as discussed in this article.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      It’s not giving the TSA your photo. The TSA is part of the federal government that already has your photo Why are you trying to make a distinction between the TSA having access to your photo and facial scanning? It’s not like they are taking a 3D scan of your face like an iPhone does. They are using a photo on file and matching it to a picture they take. They or any other part of the government can already do that. You lose no privacy that you haven’t already lost to the government once you applied for a drivers license or a passport. The government is already tracking you every time you get on a plane and they already have a system in place that as soon as you check in, your information is compared to a no fly list. The second you walk into an airport, you are under the auspices of the TSA. They can scan you, put bomb detecting liquids on your hand, take you into a room for a more thorough pat down and keep you from flying period. If you don’t know the advantage of TSA Precheck, you obviously either don’t fly a lot or don’t fly out of major airports.
      - marssaxman 4y ago
        > They are using a photo on file and matching it to a picture they take. Now they have two photos. Next time I fly, they will have three. Soon they have lots more. Why would I want this? > It’s not like they are taking a 3D scan of your face like an iPhone does. Not today, maybe, but I'm sure they'll be trying to roll that out next year, if they think they can get away with it. > The government is already tracking you Well of course they are. Is that supposed to make me feel better? I will continue to resist, at every new step, even though I will probably lose; at least I'll make them work for it, as best I can. > If you don’t know the advantage of TSA Precheck, you obviously either don’t fly a lot or don’t fly out of major airports. I don't want any such advantages, and I have no interest in making the TSA's job any easier. I am willing to spend the time it takes.
        scarface74 4y ago
        > Now they have two photos. Next time I fly, they will have three. Soon they have lots more. Why would I want this? Have you not used Google photos? How many photos do you think they need to make a positive match? If you have a driver’s license and a passport, they already have two photos of you. How are you making the TSA’s job harder? As soon as you check in at the airport, they already no who you are, what time you checked in, your final destination, how many bags you checked in etc. they can open your checked luggage, go through it erc. They have an even better idea of what you are carrying on board the plane when you don’t have TSA Precheck because you have to take everything electronic out of your bag and they even know if you have funny looking feet since you had to take your shoes off. The only person’s life you are making harder is your own.

So what’s the purpose of keeping your photo ID from the same government that already has that information? They already know every time that you get on a flight.

marssaxman 4y ago

Who's talking about keeping government-issued photo ID away from the government? I was talking about the new facial recognition system being discussed in the linked article. I'd prefer not to use it, because I don't trust the people operating it.

scarface74 4y ago
You don’t trust the TSA. But you do trust the other parts of the same government? What can the TSA do with your face that every other part of the government can’t do? The TSA can already put you on a “no fly list” and detect when you board a commercial airline regardless of whether you give them your photo ID. Do you think they are unable to get your picture from your passport or your RealID enabled driver’s license? In other words, the only way to get around the TSA is not to fly. The only way to get around the government not being able to use facial recognition is not to have a driver’s license or a passport. What’s the threat model you believe you are protecting yourself from by having just one part of the federal government not having your photo ID to do facial recognition?
- marssaxman 4y ago
  > But you do trust the other parts of the same government? Not especially, no. > What can the TSA do with your face that every other part of the government can’t do? I don't know, but I'm sure we'll all be reading about whatever they come up with ten years from now, when the scandal breaks and someone sues them over it. Your argument appears to be, "the TSA already has the power to abuse you, so you should just give them whatever they want, whenever they want it". But why? What do I have to gain by cooperating with them? Of course I will give them nothing more than I am forced to. Why do you keep talking about photo IDs? I am talking about facial scanners, as discussed in this article.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    It’s not giving the TSA your photo. The TSA is part of the federal government that already has your photo Why are you trying to make a distinction between the TSA having access to your photo and facial scanning? It’s not like they are taking a 3D scan of your face like an iPhone does. They are using a photo on file and matching it to a picture they take. They or any other part of the government can already do that. You lose no privacy that you haven’t already lost to the government once you applied for a drivers license or a passport. The government is already tracking you every time you get on a plane and they already have a system in place that as soon as you check in, your information is compared to a no fly list. The second you walk into an airport, you are under the auspices of the TSA. They can scan you, put bomb detecting liquids on your hand, take you into a room for a more thorough pat down and keep you from flying period. If you don’t know the advantage of TSA Precheck, you obviously either don’t fly a lot or don’t fly out of major airports.
    - marssaxman 4y ago
      > They are using a photo on file and matching it to a picture they take. Now they have two photos. Next time I fly, they will have three. Soon they have lots more. Why would I want this? > It’s not like they are taking a 3D scan of your face like an iPhone does. Not today, maybe, but I'm sure they'll be trying to roll that out next year, if they think they can get away with it. > The government is already tracking you Well of course they are. Is that supposed to make me feel better? I will continue to resist, at every new step, even though I will probably lose; at least I'll make them work for it, as best I can. > If you don’t know the advantage of TSA Precheck, you obviously either don’t fly a lot or don’t fly out of major airports. I don't want any such advantages, and I have no interest in making the TSA's job any easier. I am willing to spend the time it takes.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        > Now they have two photos. Next time I fly, they will have three. Soon they have lots more. Why would I want this? Have you not used Google photos? How many photos do you think they need to make a positive match? If you have a driver’s license and a passport, they already have two photos of you. How are you making the TSA’s job harder? As soon as you check in at the airport, they already no who you are, what time you checked in, your final destination, how many bags you checked in etc. they can open your checked luggage, go through it erc. They have an even better idea of what you are carrying on board the plane when you don’t have TSA Precheck because you have to take everything electronic out of your bag and they even know if you have funny looking feet since you had to take your shoes off. The only person’s life you are making harder is your own.