3 ms·

> They could design it in a way that it operates on your data but they have no access to the data outside of these strictly defined operations. That is exactly

> They could design it in a way that it operates on your data but they have no access to the data outside of these strictly defined operations. That is exactly what Google and Microsoft do with their enterprise products (free or not). They don't crawl your data at all.

baxuz 4y ago
> They don't crawl your data at all. This is impossible to prove.
- sz4kerto 4y ago
  Law often doesn't need 'proofs', it's enough to state that they don't.
- mrspuratic 4y ago
  But they do. Viva and Cortana read my O365 hosted work email (and I believe other data, including Sharepoint files) to provide a "daily briefing" email which picks up topics and queries from recent emails and foist some primitive organisational methods. AFAICT this is a service that has been subscribed to over and above any vanilla O365, but I'm not interested in the legal osculum infame. Both I and the data are in the EU, so they have to appear to play by those rules.
  - kornhole 4y ago
    These daily briefing emails I get at work remind me that "We are watching you." I complain about this to our security team and ask why they let Microsoft read our emails. They do not give me much of a response. I assume they get something out of the bargain.
  - someguydave 4y ago
    It is possible that microsoft segregates the processing state of Viva and Cortana such that no human outside your organization has access to the data without accessing the permission-controlled keys. Yes, ultimately Microsoft holds the keys to your encrypted data at rest but billions of dollars are riding on them managing customer keys well. In fact, Microsoft makes that claim about Viva Topics https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/enterprise/m365-dr-commitments?view=o365-worldwide#viva-connections https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/enterprise/m... “Machine Learning ("ML") models are trained on public web data, and as such do not contain any customer data from your tenant. In the future it's possible we will use customer data to improve accuracy of the ML models, in which case the data handling of ML models will follow the same policies as any other customer content (including data residency, retention, access control, sensitivity).”
- aaomidi 4y ago
  This is why audits exist. Are they perfect? No Failing these audits would be more expensive than just following the law.
criddell 4y ago
Although they do (or at least have in the past) anonymize the data and use it for internal research.
- salawat 4y ago
  That is crawling data.

baxuz 4y ago

> They don't crawl your data at all. This is impossible to prove.

sz4kerto 4y ago
Law often doesn't need 'proofs', it's enough to state that they don't.
mrspuratic 4y ago
But they do. Viva and Cortana read my O365 hosted work email (and I believe other data, including Sharepoint files) to provide a "daily briefing" email which picks up topics and queries from recent emails and foist some primitive organisational methods. AFAICT this is a service that has been subscribed to over and above any vanilla O365, but I'm not interested in the legal osculum infame. Both I and the data are in the EU, so they have to appear to play by those rules.
- kornhole 4y ago
  These daily briefing emails I get at work remind me that "We are watching you." I complain about this to our security team and ask why they let Microsoft read our emails. They do not give me much of a response. I assume they get something out of the bargain.
- someguydave 4y ago
  It is possible that microsoft segregates the processing state of Viva and Cortana such that no human outside your organization has access to the data without accessing the permission-controlled keys. Yes, ultimately Microsoft holds the keys to your encrypted data at rest but billions of dollars are riding on them managing customer keys well. In fact, Microsoft makes that claim about Viva Topics https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/enterprise/m365-dr-commitments?view=o365-worldwide#viva-connections https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-365/enterprise/m... “Machine Learning ("ML") models are trained on public web data, and as such do not contain any customer data from your tenant. In the future it's possible we will use customer data to improve accuracy of the ML models, in which case the data handling of ML models will follow the same policies as any other customer content (including data residency, retention, access control, sensitivity).”
aaomidi 4y ago
This is why audits exist. Are they perfect? No Failing these audits would be more expensive than just following the law.

criddell 4y ago

Although they do (or at least have in the past) anonymize the data and use it for internal research.

salawat 4y ago
That is crawling data.