4 ms·

The fact that both developers and users thought that a lifetime deal was possible just speak to how much our field doesn't understand how to do business.

falcolas 4y ago
Airlines did this exact thing, so I wouldn’t blame our field. It’s learning hurdle for businesses in general.
- Macha 4y ago
  The airline example was actually worse IMO, the cost (not opportunity cost, just flat out cost) of letting someone download a new exe is much less than that of an airplane seat
newsclues 4y ago
There is a way to have a sustainable business that sells lifetime deals and continues to support it. You generally need low maintenance and support costs, but if you setup an investment to generate consistent returns for minimal dev/support costs or have a recurring stream of new customers it is possible, or charge for new features and add ons. Do you really think that Adobe Photoshop CS purchases or video game purchases don't generate enough revenue to cover the costs and the only solution is recurring revenue?
- Etheryte 4y ago
  I don't think Adobe is exactly a good example here since they stopped selling one-off licenses altogether and only offer a subscription based model now.
  - conductr 4y ago
    The old model worked for decades though. For them and their user's, subscriptions offer a low cost entry point which was always a challenge at their full price point.
    - netrus 4y ago
      It worked for them because they kept releasing new version with new licenses, not updating Photoshop 1 in perpetuity.
      - newsclues 4y ago
        And yet, that worked for their customers, and Adobe. And now they are charging extra for colours people already had (Pantone fiasco).
        Kye 4y ago
        Pantone is a weird case because they actually do something even if the colors don't change. You're paying for a guarantee, not a color. They have to keep apprised of changes in materials technology used in printing and manufacturing to provide that guarantee. There's a reason the company that bought it out is in the materials business.
        newsclues 4y ago
        It’s a weird case because they want recurring revenue for digital assets when they already have recurring revenue from the physical materials that are also regular recurring purchases.
- josephd79 4y ago
  I think when it comes to games, at least from what I see with my own kids is after awhile the game becomes stale so they quit playing it. They introduced new “seasons”, battle passes and loot boxes to keep them engaged at all times and to prevent user churn. They try and suck the maximum life from each user at all cost
eropple 4y ago
I mean...it was 1995. I tend to think things have changed since then, but it's still got a lot of "it was 1995" to it. The idea that mIRC has been around that long and is still being used, let alone still updated, is in many ways shocking.
enneff 4y ago
ImageLine software make a very popular audio production program called FL Studio that has been sold on a “pay once, free upgrades for life” basis for about 25 years. It has been cited as the most installed piece of music software. The product is wildly successful and the company is doing very well AFAIK. This is in stark contrast to the other major players in the field that charge a similar amount to upgrade to the next major version. I think in the case of mIRC the lifetime model may have continued to work had IRC continued to grow, but it didn’t and the users went elsewhere.
- alt227 4y ago
  Ironically IMO most of the users went elsewhere because it seemed like mirc wasnt being updated very much and got left behind the times whilst other platforms like slack and discord took irc and built actual useful things on top. Now the mirc developer is claiming he updates the software so much he needs all the people who already paid him to pay him again, meanwhile slack and discord remain free (ish). So backward.
  - Macha 4y ago
    Slack is freemium, subsidized by the big enterprise customers and the free offering is a funnel to some people that may eventually be big customers. Discord is funded by VC money and the users they've managed to convince to pay for emoji. How much of column A vs column B is unclear at this point
michaelt 4y ago
There are 385,000 babies born every day. If just 10% of them need a $10 mIRC license at some point in their life, mIRC would have ongoing revenue of $140 million per year. /s
Semaphor 4y ago
I bought a lifetime license for MediaMonkey [0] [1] back in 2007, back then it was version 2, now I’m using 4 and 5 is in public beta. And they are still selling that same lifetime license, though it’s $50 now instead of probably $40 back then (I was charged 33€) [0] https://www.mediamonkey.com/windows#download https://www.mediamonkey.com/windows#download [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaMonkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaMonkey

falcolas 4y ago

Airlines did this exact thing, so I wouldn’t blame our field. It’s learning hurdle for businesses in general.

Macha 4y ago
The airline example was actually worse IMO, the cost (not opportunity cost, just flat out cost) of letting someone download a new exe is much less than that of an airplane seat

newsclues 4y ago

There is a way to have a sustainable business that sells lifetime deals and continues to support it. You generally need low maintenance and support costs, but if you setup an investment to generate consistent returns for minimal dev/support costs or have a recurring stream of new customers it is possible, or charge for new features and add ons. Do you really think that Adobe Photoshop CS purchases or video game purchases don't generate enough revenue to cover the costs and the only solution is recurring revenue?

Etheryte 4y ago
I don't think Adobe is exactly a good example here since they stopped selling one-off licenses altogether and only offer a subscription based model now.
- conductr 4y ago
  The old model worked for decades though. For them and their user's, subscriptions offer a low cost entry point which was always a challenge at their full price point.
  - netrus 4y ago
    It worked for them because they kept releasing new version with new licenses, not updating Photoshop 1 in perpetuity.
    - newsclues 4y ago
      And yet, that worked for their customers, and Adobe. And now they are charging extra for colours people already had (Pantone fiasco).
      - Kye 4y ago
        Pantone is a weird case because they actually do something even if the colors don't change. You're paying for a guarantee, not a color. They have to keep apprised of changes in materials technology used in printing and manufacturing to provide that guarantee. There's a reason the company that bought it out is in the materials business.
        newsclues 4y ago
        It’s a weird case because they want recurring revenue for digital assets when they already have recurring revenue from the physical materials that are also regular recurring purchases.
josephd79 4y ago
I think when it comes to games, at least from what I see with my own kids is after awhile the game becomes stale so they quit playing it. They introduced new “seasons”, battle passes and loot boxes to keep them engaged at all times and to prevent user churn. They try and suck the maximum life from each user at all cost

eropple 4y ago

I mean...it was 1995. I tend to think things have changed since then, but it's still got a lot of "it was 1995" to it. The idea that mIRC has been around that long and is still being used, let alone still updated, is in many ways shocking.

enneff 4y ago

ImageLine software make a very popular audio production program called FL Studio that has been sold on a “pay once, free upgrades for life” basis for about 25 years. It has been cited as the most installed piece of music software. The product is wildly successful and the company is doing very well AFAIK. This is in stark contrast to the other major players in the field that charge a similar amount to upgrade to the next major version. I think in the case of mIRC the lifetime model may have continued to work had IRC continued to grow, but it didn’t and the users went elsewhere.

alt227 4y ago
Ironically IMO most of the users went elsewhere because it seemed like mirc wasnt being updated very much and got left behind the times whilst other platforms like slack and discord took irc and built actual useful things on top. Now the mirc developer is claiming he updates the software so much he needs all the people who already paid him to pay him again, meanwhile slack and discord remain free (ish). So backward.
- Macha 4y ago
  Slack is freemium, subsidized by the big enterprise customers and the free offering is a funnel to some people that may eventually be big customers. Discord is funded by VC money and the users they've managed to convince to pay for emoji. How much of column A vs column B is unclear at this point

michaelt 4y ago

There are 385,000 babies born every day. If just 10% of them need a $10 mIRC license at some point in their life, mIRC would have ongoing revenue of $140 million per year. /s

Semaphor 4y ago

I bought a lifetime license for MediaMonkey [0] [1] back in 2007, back then it was version 2, now I’m using 4 and 5 is in public beta. And they are still selling that same lifetime license, though it’s $50 now instead of probably $40 back then (I was charged 33€) [0] https://www.mediamonkey.com/windows#download https://www.mediamonkey.com/windows#download [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaMonkey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaMonkey