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If you've been using mIRC with a lifetime license since 1995 you've paid roughly $.74 a year for the privilege. I'm sympathetic to the developer here.
by faefox 4y ago
If you've been using mIRC with a lifetime license since 1995 you've paid roughly $.74 a year for the privilege. I'm sympathetic to the developer here.
- jqpabc123 4y agoIf the license was upheld as sold, "sympathy" would not be required.
- josephcsible 4y ago> I'm sympathetic to the developer here. I'm not. You don't get to unilaterally revoke a contract just because it turned out to be unprofitable or unfavorable to you.
- daviddever23box 4y agoOne could simply cease providing support for product A, re-name it to product B, and charge for a new license with same effect.
- b112 4y agoIf the codebase is mostly the same, a court would laugh in your face. But regardless of that, discovering legal trickery to weasel out of a deal is morally bankrupt.
- infecto 4y agoInteresting because this is how most other companies have handled it and I have yet to see any big news on court cases for it.
- b112 4y agoI have seen a lot of software with lifetime licenses, and if you actually look at the license, it lays out the scope. (EG, most licenses lay out... "v1.x updates only") I have not seen companies saying "Lifetime updates to Bord, forever!"... then calling a same product "Zdft" to get out of updates.
- infecto 4y agoInteresting. Would you say this is this has been the case for both small and large companies? Genuinely curious. I do wonder though how sympathetic a court would be to the plantiff if mIRC was brought to court? How enforceable is a lifetime contract? No answer needed just my own curiosity.
- b112 4y agoI have no idea why a lifetime contract wouldn't be. It happens all the time (lifetime warranty is an example), just as CN Rail discovered. In 1906, the Canadian National Railway Company signed a contract for upkeep of a bridge, in perpetuity(forever): https://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2018/2018ONCA0517.pdf https://www.ontariocourts.ca/decisions/2018/2018ONCA0517.pdf When CN refused to reopen the Bridge for vehicles, Thunder Bay brought an application for a determination of its contractual rights under the 1906 Agreement. Two provisions of this Agreement are central to this appeal: s. 3, in which Grand Trunk Pacific agreed to give Fort William “the perpetual right to cross the said bridge for street railway, vehicle and foot traffic”; and s. 5, in which CN agreed to “maintain the bridge in perpetuity”. If a mega-corp can't weasel out of a deal to maintain a bridge forever, I don't see how a software company can weasel out either. CN tried all sorts of arguments, too, which essentially boiled down to "things are different now!", and "how could we have known!", which of course are meaningless arguments.
- infecto 4y agoThanks for the informative reply!
- Macha 4y agoTwo examples I've personally hit: Swiftkey to Swiftkey X. Doubletwist to CloudPlayer.
- b112 4y agoAll I'll say, is if the license wasn't clear re: lifetime limits, they could be sued.
- Tomte 4y agoOne would lose all name recognition. mIRC is a household name in IRC circles.
- denton-scratch 4y agoBut it's not a support contract. It's a licence to use the software, isn't it? You can't reasonably revoke a lifetime licence-to-use; there's no cost to letting people go on using it. There's also no marginal cost in allowing lifetime licensees to download updates.
- fnordpiglet 4y agoThey didn’t revoke anything. You still are entitled to the license. You just need to take an affirmative action that you’re a total tightwad jerkoff and they’ll provide the license key you’re entitled to.
- cool_dude85 4y agoDid you go to the same business school as Nathan Fielder? The people have paid for their license, but now the developer wants to put up manual roadblocks for you to actually get what you paid for... for the time being. No promise he'll continue answering these emails. What if he puts a bunch of printed license keys on the top of a mountain, only to be granted after you answer his riddles three? It's still technically available, but not really.
- faefox 4y agoDude's been maintaining an IRC client for more than a quarter of a century. It seems reasonable to believe that he will be responsive to these emails for as long as having a license continues to be meaningful (in the sense of access to future updates). But seriously, just pay the man.
- tristan957 4y agoThe users did when they agreed to the terms of the lifetime license and paid for it.
- fnordpiglet 4y ago
- unethical_ban 4y agoThere are many things to give a shit about today, and a small-time developer realizing that a promise made a decade ago isn't financially sustainable isn't one of them.
- infecto 4y agoEspecially over a now $20 3 year license. If someone cares so much go use OSS and contribute back.
- zmxz 4y ago> You don't get to unilaterally revoke a contract just because it turned out to be unprofitable or unfavorable to you. What do you suggest, or are you even suggesting anything?
- pessimizer 4y agoJust because I tell you not to kick your dog doesn't mean I have to come up with another way to make it shut up.
- zmxz 4y ago
- Macha 4y agoThe developer is clearly the dog kicker in this analogy, not the dog
- zmxz 4y agoMy bad, then the dog kicker gets to live in the economy of 2022. using the reimbursements from 1995. Still a lovely display of empathy and entitlement from people who blindly refuse to acknowledge that the person who created mIRC is human.
- swores 4y agoThe analogy was clearly used to make a point about feedback not being required to come with suggestions attached, not because they wanted to call the developer a dog kicker. If you really couldn't tell that, as opposed to you're just trolling, you could take a look at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaphor to learn more about this conversational tool.
- zmxz 4y ago
- JBLateNight 4y agoEntitled
- infecto 4y agoI am sympathetic to the developer too and quite amused with how many people have the pitchforks ready. A solo developer offered a lifetime license not thinking they would still be working on it 25 years later. Asks nicely that if you have been using it for over 10 years to think about supporting the product you use. Was a lifetime license a great idea? No probably not but the way the developer handled does not seem like a money grab but value for their continued support on a product 25 years later.
- zmxz 4y ago> how many people have the pitchforks ready Empathy is lost on internet, hidden behind entitlement.
- faefox 4y agoNo kidding. I never registered my copy of mIRC as a kid (sorry Khaled!) but in hindsight it would've been one of the sounder financial decisions I could've made in grade school.
- Semaphor 4y ago> Asks nicely that if you have been using it for over 10 years to think about supporting the product you use. If they were asking nicely, I assume there would be no pitchforks. Instead they reverted the license, and you can find a FAQ on their website that tells you that you can email them, and eventually they’ll un-revert the license.
- coupdejarnac 4y agoI wish I could have a list of everyone who thinks $20 for 20 years of support is unreasonable, so I could avoid having them as customers.
- jqpabc123 4y agoI wish I could have a list of everyone who thinks revoking licensed support is reasonable, so I could have them as customers. This is not about dollars, it is about ethics.