4 ms·

Or it would, if the Pi 4 didn't have a street price of 100+ even for the 2GB model. We're getting to the point where buying a barebone x86 system on Aliexpress

by _cenw 4y ago

Or it would, if the Pi 4 didn't have a street price of 100+ even for the 2GB model. We're getting to the point where buying a barebone x86 system on Aliexpress is cheaper than some of these ARM development boards, definitely not something I saw coming.

phoehne 4y ago
When you add performance as a consideration, for just straight computing tasks, you might also want to consider a refurbished or used 1 liter PC. They'll have a 6th or 8th generation intel CPU and power draws usually below 60 watts. There are also some other alternatives like Orange Pi. Generally speaking, some of the other options don't have a PoE capability (my Pis are all PoE) and you lose the exposed GPIO pins. But if you're just running a web server and don't care about PoE or hooking an i2c device to it, used 1 liter machines aren't a bad way to go.
- smcl 4y ago
  Ahh I've accidentally been referring to all of these 1 litre PCs as "NUC"s - didn't realise there was a non-intel, generic name for it
  - geerlingguy 4y ago
    Some also call them SFF (Small Form Factor) PCs but that term for me typically means the slightly larger desktop size PCs you could set a monitor on top of. The 1L PCs are more like the thin clients hospitals have bolted on their monitors. ServeTheHome has a great ongoing series on "TinyMiniMicro" computers that make great little home servers.
    - ciupicri 4y ago
      SFF is about two, two and half stacked pizza boxes when it comes to Dell OptiPlex and Lenovo ThinkCentre. There is also USFF which is tiny, but still bigger than NUC.
  - craig_s_bell 4y ago
    There's a bunch of info about 1L PCs at ServeTheHome. Look for the 'tinyminimicro' tag: https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimicro-home-lab-revolution/ https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimic... Those guys tend to buy new; although you can easily find used (but still very capable) models on Fleabay, &c. for cheaper. Usual caveats apply; but I've had good experiences after checking sellers carefully. Manufacturers also have factory-refurbished sales websites, usually separate from their normal website (lease-returns from their financial services arm). Those come with short warranties, and an option to extend them. They are also nicely cleaned up and re-boxed, sometimes with accessories. I have one from Fleabay and another from Dellrefurbished. Both have been running great for nearly 3 years.
- implements 4y ago
  Just as a heads-up, OpenBSD isn’t a great low wattage OS. My NUC came with Ubuntu and sipped power at idle, but OpenBSD doesn’t idle well and (worse) doesn’t SpeedStep on mains power either.
  - anthk 4y ago
    Install and set obsdfreqd.
- ridgered4 4y ago
  > and power draws usually below 60 watts That isn't really in the same class as the Pi though, it seems the various models use somewhere in the range of 1-6watt max.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    Except 60 Watts of power is roughly the power-usage of a Lasko box-fan. A PC, even 10 years old, barely uses any power in the scope of things that are in our houses. The 5W of a Rasp. Pi is extremely awkward in practice. Its "a lot smaller" than a PC for sure, but not small enough to make AA-batteries usable or otherwise a portable computer. And if you're using 18650 Li-ion cells, well... that's called a laptop / typical computer in the 30W to 60W range anyway. There's something to be said about ESP32 / ESP8266 which actually gets you to that sub-1W level where AA batteries are viable. Its just a new set of opportunities. As it is, Rasp. Pi4 really doesn't feel much different to me (from a power-usage perspective) compared to laptops, or even PCs.
mirekrusin 4y ago
What's going on? I'm pretty sure I got 8GB one some time ago for peanuts?
- seanw444 4y ago
  High demand, low supply.
  - destitude 4y ago
    More like no supply.
    - SirMaster 4y ago
      There's lots of supply, but like 90% of it is going to corporations and backdoor deals before it hits retail shelves for consumers. Ever since the pi foundation took that $45M investment and added their first outside shareholders about a year an a half ago it's been all downhill from there in terms of consumer supply.
yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago
OpenBSD still supports it, regardless of whether users can actually purchase the hardware. I mean, it also supports loads of hardware that hasn't even been manufactured in years if not decades, so availability of the hardware on the market is hardly its limiting factor.
LeoPanthera 4y ago
You can still get them at retail price but you have to put a mild amount of work into it. https://rpilocator.com https://rpilocator.com is an invaluable resource, especially this guide: https://rpilocator.com/tips-and-tricks.cfm https://rpilocator.com/tips-and-tricks.cfm

by _cenw 4y ago

phoehne 4y ago

When you add performance as a consideration, for just straight computing tasks, you might also want to consider a refurbished or used 1 liter PC. They'll have a 6th or 8th generation intel CPU and power draws usually below 60 watts. There are also some other alternatives like Orange Pi. Generally speaking, some of the other options don't have a PoE capability (my Pis are all PoE) and you lose the exposed GPIO pins. But if you're just running a web server and don't care about PoE or hooking an i2c device to it, used 1 liter machines aren't a bad way to go.

smcl 4y ago
Ahh I've accidentally been referring to all of these 1 litre PCs as "NUC"s - didn't realise there was a non-intel, generic name for it
- geerlingguy 4y ago
  Some also call them SFF (Small Form Factor) PCs but that term for me typically means the slightly larger desktop size PCs you could set a monitor on top of. The 1L PCs are more like the thin clients hospitals have bolted on their monitors. ServeTheHome has a great ongoing series on "TinyMiniMicro" computers that make great little home servers.
  - ciupicri 4y ago
    SFF is about two, two and half stacked pizza boxes when it comes to Dell OptiPlex and Lenovo ThinkCentre. There is also USFF which is tiny, but still bigger than NUC.
- craig_s_bell 4y ago
  There's a bunch of info about 1L PCs at ServeTheHome. Look for the 'tinyminimicro' tag: https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimicro-home-lab-revolution/ https://www.servethehome.com/introducing-project-tinyminimic... Those guys tend to buy new; although you can easily find used (but still very capable) models on Fleabay, &c. for cheaper. Usual caveats apply; but I've had good experiences after checking sellers carefully. Manufacturers also have factory-refurbished sales websites, usually separate from their normal website (lease-returns from their financial services arm). Those come with short warranties, and an option to extend them. They are also nicely cleaned up and re-boxed, sometimes with accessories. I have one from Fleabay and another from Dellrefurbished. Both have been running great for nearly 3 years.
implements 4y ago
Just as a heads-up, OpenBSD isn’t a great low wattage OS. My NUC came with Ubuntu and sipped power at idle, but OpenBSD doesn’t idle well and (worse) doesn’t SpeedStep on mains power either.
- anthk 4y ago
  Install and set obsdfreqd.
ridgered4 4y ago
> and power draws usually below 60 watts That isn't really in the same class as the Pi though, it seems the various models use somewhere in the range of 1-6watt max.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  Except 60 Watts of power is roughly the power-usage of a Lasko box-fan. A PC, even 10 years old, barely uses any power in the scope of things that are in our houses. The 5W of a Rasp. Pi is extremely awkward in practice. Its "a lot smaller" than a PC for sure, but not small enough to make AA-batteries usable or otherwise a portable computer. And if you're using 18650 Li-ion cells, well... that's called a laptop / typical computer in the 30W to 60W range anyway. There's something to be said about ESP32 / ESP8266 which actually gets you to that sub-1W level where AA batteries are viable. Its just a new set of opportunities. As it is, Rasp. Pi4 really doesn't feel much different to me (from a power-usage perspective) compared to laptops, or even PCs.

mirekrusin 4y ago

What's going on? I'm pretty sure I got 8GB one some time ago for peanuts?

seanw444 4y ago
High demand, low supply.
- destitude 4y ago
  More like no supply.
  - SirMaster 4y ago
    There's lots of supply, but like 90% of it is going to corporations and backdoor deals before it hits retail shelves for consumers. Ever since the pi foundation took that $45M investment and added their first outside shareholders about a year an a half ago it's been all downhill from there in terms of consumer supply.

yjftsjthsd-h 4y ago

OpenBSD still supports it, regardless of whether users can actually purchase the hardware. I mean, it also supports loads of hardware that hasn't even been manufactured in years if not decades, so availability of the hardware on the market is hardly its limiting factor.

LeoPanthera 4y ago

You can still get them at retail price but you have to put a mild amount of work into it. https://rpilocator.com https://rpilocator.com is an invaluable resource, especially this guide: https://rpilocator.com/tips-and-tricks.cfm https://rpilocator.com/tips-and-tricks.cfm