5 ms·

I guess you watch Adam Something, this line is something he repeats a lot and I agree with most of it but as someone who grew up in maisonette block housing (li

I guess you watch Adam Something, this line is something he repeats a lot and I agree with most of it but as someone who grew up in maisonette block housing (like this https://www.flickr.com/photos/rogersg/44549465930/in/faves-cybertect/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/rogersg/44549465930/in/faves-c...), it is not nearly as nice as living in your own house (even a terraced house). You are at the mercy of your neighbours, shit neighbours, shit time. It's not a bad thing to make compromises. Yes flats are more energy efficient than detached houses, it's also a less pleasant experience unless you get lucky. living in a miserable shithole (which is what commie block housing was for me) isn't the future I want

ajuc 4y ago
I lived half my life in a detached house in countryside in Poland, then I moved to several big cities and lived in modern and communist-era commie-blocks. There are positives and negatives. I don't have problems with neighbors, but then I'm a pretty heavy sleeper. My wife had some problems sleeping when neighbors had a party at night, but that's still a pretty minor and rare inconvenience. On the other hand everything we might need is a 15 minutes walk or less, we barely need to drive a car. The air quality is much better in the winter, you don't need to mow the lawn or shuffle the snow. I wouldn't want to go back.
ZeroGravitas 4y ago
It's a simple trade-off. Like waiting for luggage in an airport. Would it be nice to take a step forward and be closer to your luggage and have a better view, yes it would. Would it be nice if everyone took a step forward. No, it would suck for everyone and be worse overall. The fact that people can still say "yeah, but if just I do it, then I'd get all the benefits, so it's a good idea" is a failure of our civilization.
- guntherhermann 4y ago
  I do not fly, I grow food for myself and my community in an allotment, I cycle 95% of my journeys, I am a vegetarian. I believe that I make a better effort than most at reducing my impact on the world. Apparently this is just not good enough for people like you, I must also consign myself to the misery of living in cramped housing surrounded by inconsiderate arseholes.
  - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
    It would be easy to take the same whiny tone about cycling, "why do I need to risk my life and get splashed by rainwater etc. when I could just buy a car and drive in comfort" and the answer would be the same, because the more people who cycle, or live in dense, well designed neighbourhoods, the better off we all are. It's something we should encourage, support and build for. Publicly declaring that cycling was only for poor, suicidal, idiots would not be helpful. I don't suggest anyone should be forced to cycle or grow their own food, or live in any particular building, but as a society there's a whole bunch of things that we can encourage that make the lives we lead better, even if on an individual basis, it would be considered an imposition. “A civilization flourishes when people plant trees under which they will never sit.” -Greek Proverb
    - guntherhermann 4y ago
      > It would be easy to take the same whiny tone about cycling The tone isn't whining, it's indignation. > Publicly declaring that cycling was only for poor, suicidal, idiots would not be helpful. Show me where I say that living in a flat is for poor, suicidal idiots. Yours is the attitude that supports euthanasia, not mine. Yours is the one of nihilism and pessimism of the future of the world. Stop telling people how to live. Live that way if you want, convince other people it's good, but you cannot bully me into living that way. Prove to me that you put less of an impact on this world than I do, I seriously doubt that you can.
      - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
        > I must also consign myself to the misery of living in cramped housing surrounded by inconsiderate arseholes.
        guntherhermann 4y ago
        Here's a comment from a different reply I made (which you have definitely read and choose to ignore): > I think living in a flat is great if that's your thing, it's definitely cheaper to heat! But the argument always seems to be this sort of dogmatic "do this if unless you're a shithead who hates the planet" and I just don't think that it's true for everyone, or a healthy approach to enjoying what limited time we have alive. I'm logging out of HN now, there's only so much disingenuous chat I can take and your comments appear to be that of a wind up than real debate. Take it easy.
balfirevic 4y ago
> even a terraced house As someone who has only ever lived in apartments - how is terraced house better, is it because there is no one above you (never heard of the term, but that's what i inferred from googling)?
- 6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago
  I live in a terraced house. I own the land on which it is built, I have a tiny garden to the front and a less tiny garden to the rear. No one charges me a maintenance fee. I am free to shop around for energy providers or even change how energy is provided to my house completely by installing solar panels etc. I have free use of my loft, to the extent I could create further living space there if desired. Etc. None of the above would be true if I owned an apartment.
- guntherhermann 4y ago
  It's more than your direct neighbours. In a flat/apartment/commie-block everyone is closer together. In a terraced house there's nobody above you, there's nobody below. There is no echoey hallway with relentless pounding of boots, neighbours across the hall with large soundsystems. Of course you can still have bad neighbours in terraced housing street, but it requires less luck, and you can knock around and ask about how it is to live in the area before you buy the house. Trying to do the same when buying a flat is much more difficult. It's doable but you're treated like a weirdo I have a front and a back garden, my own dedicated place to park my car. The rooms that directly join my neighbours house are the staircase and the master bedroom, so places people are usually quiet, the living areas then have a barrier that helps to minimise noise. Compare this to my mate who lives in a flat and his living room backs onto their neighbours bedroom, and vice-versa. Flats don't have to be designed badly, but in my experience they usually do not prioritise mitigating noise pollution. I think living in a flat is great if that's your thing, it's definitely cheaper to heat! But the argument always seems to be this sort of dogmatic "do this if unless you're a shithead who hates the planet" and I just don't think that it's true for everyone, or a healthy approach to enjoying what limited time we have alive.
  - balfirevic 4y ago
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
It's not really a choice is it? Space is at a premium. Sixty percent of the world population lives in cities. I live in a 70 square metre appartement and its large enough for me.

ajuc 4y ago

I lived half my life in a detached house in countryside in Poland, then I moved to several big cities and lived in modern and communist-era commie-blocks. There are positives and negatives. I don't have problems with neighbors, but then I'm a pretty heavy sleeper. My wife had some problems sleeping when neighbors had a party at night, but that's still a pretty minor and rare inconvenience. On the other hand everything we might need is a 15 minutes walk or less, we barely need to drive a car. The air quality is much better in the winter, you don't need to mow the lawn or shuffle the snow. I wouldn't want to go back.

ZeroGravitas 4y ago

It's a simple trade-off. Like waiting for luggage in an airport. Would it be nice to take a step forward and be closer to your luggage and have a better view, yes it would. Would it be nice if everyone took a step forward. No, it would suck for everyone and be worse overall. The fact that people can still say "yeah, but if just I do it, then I'd get all the benefits, so it's a good idea" is a failure of our civilization.

guntherhermann 4y ago
I do not fly, I grow food for myself and my community in an allotment, I cycle 95% of my journeys, I am a vegetarian. I believe that I make a better effort than most at reducing my impact on the world. Apparently this is just not good enough for people like you, I must also consign myself to the misery of living in cramped housing surrounded by inconsiderate arseholes.
- ZeroGravitas 4y ago
  It would be easy to take the same whiny tone about cycling, "why do I need to risk my life and get splashed by rainwater etc. when I could just buy a car and drive in comfort" and the answer would be the same, because the more people who cycle, or live in dense, well designed neighbourhoods, the better off we all are. It's something we should encourage, support and build for. Publicly declaring that cycling was only for poor, suicidal, idiots would not be helpful. I don't suggest anyone should be forced to cycle or grow their own food, or live in any particular building, but as a society there's a whole bunch of things that we can encourage that make the lives we lead better, even if on an individual basis, it would be considered an imposition. “A civilization flourishes when people plant trees under which they will never sit.” -Greek Proverb
  - guntherhermann 4y ago
    > It would be easy to take the same whiny tone about cycling The tone isn't whining, it's indignation. > Publicly declaring that cycling was only for poor, suicidal, idiots would not be helpful. Show me where I say that living in a flat is for poor, suicidal idiots. Yours is the attitude that supports euthanasia, not mine. Yours is the one of nihilism and pessimism of the future of the world. Stop telling people how to live. Live that way if you want, convince other people it's good, but you cannot bully me into living that way. Prove to me that you put less of an impact on this world than I do, I seriously doubt that you can.
    - ZeroGravitas 4y ago
      > I must also consign myself to the misery of living in cramped housing surrounded by inconsiderate arseholes.
      - guntherhermann 4y ago
        Here's a comment from a different reply I made (which you have definitely read and choose to ignore): > I think living in a flat is great if that's your thing, it's definitely cheaper to heat! But the argument always seems to be this sort of dogmatic "do this if unless you're a shithead who hates the planet" and I just don't think that it's true for everyone, or a healthy approach to enjoying what limited time we have alive. I'm logging out of HN now, there's only so much disingenuous chat I can take and your comments appear to be that of a wind up than real debate. Take it easy.

balfirevic 4y ago

> even a terraced house As someone who has only ever lived in apartments - how is terraced house better, is it because there is no one above you (never heard of the term, but that's what i inferred from googling)?

6LLvveMx2koXfwn 4y ago
I live in a terraced house. I own the land on which it is built, I have a tiny garden to the front and a less tiny garden to the rear. No one charges me a maintenance fee. I am free to shop around for energy providers or even change how energy is provided to my house completely by installing solar panels etc. I have free use of my loft, to the extent I could create further living space there if desired. Etc. None of the above would be true if I owned an apartment.
guntherhermann 4y ago
It's more than your direct neighbours. In a flat/apartment/commie-block everyone is closer together. In a terraced house there's nobody above you, there's nobody below. There is no echoey hallway with relentless pounding of boots, neighbours across the hall with large soundsystems. Of course you can still have bad neighbours in terraced housing street, but it requires less luck, and you can knock around and ask about how it is to live in the area before you buy the house. Trying to do the same when buying a flat is much more difficult. It's doable but you're treated like a weirdo I have a front and a back garden, my own dedicated place to park my car. The rooms that directly join my neighbours house are the staircase and the master bedroom, so places people are usually quiet, the living areas then have a barrier that helps to minimise noise. Compare this to my mate who lives in a flat and his living room backs onto their neighbours bedroom, and vice-versa. Flats don't have to be designed badly, but in my experience they usually do not prioritise mitigating noise pollution. I think living in a flat is great if that's your thing, it's definitely cheaper to heat! But the argument always seems to be this sort of dogmatic "do this if unless you're a shithead who hates the planet" and I just don't think that it's true for everyone, or a healthy approach to enjoying what limited time we have alive.
- balfirevic 4y ago

MomoXenosaga 4y ago

It's not really a choice is it? Space is at a premium. Sixty percent of the world population lives in cities. I live in a 70 square metre appartement and its large enough for me.