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Interesting what "off the grid" means today. - full internet access - a pletora of internet capable devices Not exactly my definition. Plus, spending 600€ +

Interesting what "off the grid" means today. - full internet access - a pletora of internet capable devices Not exactly my definition. Plus, spending 600€ + 125€ a month for internet isn't exactly something everyone can afford.

guntherhermann 4y ago
I don't agree, I'd say Kris Harbour lives "off grid" and he has an internet connection. https://youtu.be/lSt96KFFHxA https://youtu.be/lSt96KFFHxA
jillesvangurp 4y ago
Off grid simply means no grid connection. These days that indeed can mean very few compromises with respect to modern comforts like working internet, hot showers, heating, electricity, etc.
- nonameiguess 4y ago
  So "grid" only means public utilities networks? You can't connect to central service providers via pipe or wire, but you can via radio? The Internet equivalent of generating your own electricity and heat would seem something like generating your own readers and content, talking to yourself via http payloads rendered into a browser. As soon as you're purchasing service from an ISP to get onto a shared network, that sounds an awful lot like a grid.
  - uxp100 4y ago
    Grid means the electrical grid. That’s it, and it’s typically the only utility that is available in rural areas. Many off-grid people don’t have these weird ideological hang ups that HNers project onto them, they simply want to live on land they own, and electrical service is impossible or extremely expensive.
- SkeuomorphicBee 4y ago
  Some people would disagree with your definition of "grid" that doesn't include internet. I can imagine different people defining "grid" in one of three ways: 1. Physical infrastructure that runs uninterrupted all the way to your home. E.G. Electric grid, gas pipes, copper/fiber telecom wires. 2. The above plus big wireless infrastructure as well, so being on range of a cellphone tower would be on-grid. 3. The whole network of human society, so any instant on-demand exchange of goods or information would mean on-grid. So having internet trough Starlink would definitely be on-grid for definition #3, and maybe on-grid for #2 as well if conceptually you put a mesh of LOE satellites in the same category as a mesh of telecom antennas (which I personally lean towards).
  - twobitshifter 4y ago
    I see off-grid as not having public utilities. Starlink has similarities to solar panels, you’re receiving waves from space and nothing needs to be built from another location to your house to support it. Further, the signals are there to access with or without you using star-link. By definition 3, I suppose off-grid would mean there’s no roads to your house and you’d have to pack everything in, but that level of off-grid would mean that almost everything described as off-grid isn’t and the term is no longer useful.
    - fedeb95 4y ago
      Nothing except satellites lol
- heliodor 4y ago
  Off grid is typically defined based on things that help you survive. Water, electricity, and gas help you survive. Internet doesn't.
  - jillesvangurp 4y ago
    "Off grid" quite literally refers to the notion of not being connected to a grid. Mostly that means the electrical grid but people also include other utilities like gas, sewage, and phone/internet. All of which involve some kind of physical infrastructure that you are cut off when going "off grid". Wireless internet was not an option until fairly recently. Now it is. And you can generate your own electricity too. Not making this up by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-grid I get that a lot of people would love it to mean living like hermit in some hut in the middle of nowhere without a lot of comfort. That's a choice you can make of course and more power too you if you do. But for most of the rest of us, being off grid and having working internet are no longer mutually exclusive.
jansan 4y ago
In winter, when the solar panels in Sweden will provide roughly zero electricity, this will be much closer to your definition of "off grid". But hey, during that season one can be "off grid" on the Bahamas.
baandam 4y ago
It all reminds me of the Ali G show. "He don't use no technology, you can check out his website" "I live off grid and my expenses are covered by my youtube channel!"

guntherhermann 4y ago

I don't agree, I'd say Kris Harbour lives "off grid" and he has an internet connection. https://youtu.be/lSt96KFFHxA https://youtu.be/lSt96KFFHxA

jillesvangurp 4y ago

Off grid simply means no grid connection. These days that indeed can mean very few compromises with respect to modern comforts like working internet, hot showers, heating, electricity, etc.

nonameiguess 4y ago
So "grid" only means public utilities networks? You can't connect to central service providers via pipe or wire, but you can via radio? The Internet equivalent of generating your own electricity and heat would seem something like generating your own readers and content, talking to yourself via http payloads rendered into a browser. As soon as you're purchasing service from an ISP to get onto a shared network, that sounds an awful lot like a grid.
- uxp100 4y ago
  Grid means the electrical grid. That’s it, and it’s typically the only utility that is available in rural areas. Many off-grid people don’t have these weird ideological hang ups that HNers project onto them, they simply want to live on land they own, and electrical service is impossible or extremely expensive.
SkeuomorphicBee 4y ago
Some people would disagree with your definition of "grid" that doesn't include internet. I can imagine different people defining "grid" in one of three ways: 1. Physical infrastructure that runs uninterrupted all the way to your home. E.G. Electric grid, gas pipes, copper/fiber telecom wires. 2. The above plus big wireless infrastructure as well, so being on range of a cellphone tower would be on-grid. 3. The whole network of human society, so any instant on-demand exchange of goods or information would mean on-grid. So having internet trough Starlink would definitely be on-grid for definition #3, and maybe on-grid for #2 as well if conceptually you put a mesh of LOE satellites in the same category as a mesh of telecom antennas (which I personally lean towards).
- twobitshifter 4y ago
  I see off-grid as not having public utilities. Starlink has similarities to solar panels, you’re receiving waves from space and nothing needs to be built from another location to your house to support it. Further, the signals are there to access with or without you using star-link. By definition 3, I suppose off-grid would mean there’s no roads to your house and you’d have to pack everything in, but that level of off-grid would mean that almost everything described as off-grid isn’t and the term is no longer useful.
  - fedeb95 4y ago
    Nothing except satellites lol
heliodor 4y ago
Off grid is typically defined based on things that help you survive. Water, electricity, and gas help you survive. Internet doesn't.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  "Off grid" quite literally refers to the notion of not being connected to a grid. Mostly that means the electrical grid but people also include other utilities like gas, sewage, and phone/internet. All of which involve some kind of physical infrastructure that you are cut off when going "off grid". Wireless internet was not an option until fairly recently. Now it is. And you can generate your own electricity too. Not making this up by the way: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-grid I get that a lot of people would love it to mean living like hermit in some hut in the middle of nowhere without a lot of comfort. That's a choice you can make of course and more power too you if you do. But for most of the rest of us, being off grid and having working internet are no longer mutually exclusive.

jansan 4y ago

In winter, when the solar panels in Sweden will provide roughly zero electricity, this will be much closer to your definition of "off grid". But hey, during that season one can be "off grid" on the Bahamas.

baandam 4y ago

It all reminds me of the Ali G show. "He don't use no technology, you can check out his website" "I live off grid and my expenses are covered by my youtube channel!"