4 ms·

We can't pay our developers minimum wage.... Somebody call the wambulance. If you are a dev and see a manager or cio type trying to guilt you into working for

by maeon3 15y ago

We can't pay our developers minimum wage.... Somebody call the wambulance. If you are a dev and see a manager or cio type trying to guilt you into working for less than 120k/year because that is just ridiculous. Smile and pee on his desk on your way out. These guys make 150 to 500k/year and contribute LESS. It is intimidation, you are a tool to these guys and they will not hesitate to throw you under the bus if it saves them some cash for executive bonuses. Its business. Supply and demand. Pay me what I am worth or im leaving. That is it. They are Borg and you will be eaten when you lose your power.

betterth 15y ago
Honestly, I agree. Most business views labor as a commodity and they intentionally divorce the human element away to make sure that they can make 'smart' decisions. If you want to keep developers who are on top of their game or who are aggressively improving themselves, than you have to aggressively match them. If you want to hire someone and train them and ensure a ROI, make them sign a contract to stay for a certain amount of time. (Or implement any other myriad of incentives to keep people to stay. Why is an employees responsibility to stay, but not an employers responsibility to incentivize them? "Working for us" is not incentive to work for you!!) But if you're not willing to compete for labor as a commodity, than you're wanting a cake and to eat it as well. Take your pick. Labor is a humanless commodity and we will all continue to make decisions as if it is, or it isn't and your developers deserve to reap the fruits of their labor.
e28eta 15y ago
Poor pay was my first thought too. Glassdoor doesn't have much info on this particular company, but there are complaints about pay, and no raise in 5 years: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Harry-Fox-Agency-Reviews-E256404.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Harry-Fox-Agency-Reviews-E2...
fennecfoxen 15y ago
My managers have generally been worth their pay. Of course, I'm not working at a dysfunctional company trying to cheat me out of what I'm worth. :)
dsolomon 15y ago
I know developers with government clearances that would be happy to make half that. Where are there mythical high paying jobs? FantasyLand?
- sounds 15y ago
  Maybe I'm stereotyping you as one of the LockMart/Boeing/Raytheon new hires. I know a good dozen personally. They have problems. * underpaid * false promises of a career track to avoid giving you real compensation like stock options or bonuses * deep cuts when the winds of politics aren't blowing your way * poor workplace ergonomics The mythical high paying jobs are in the "private sector."
  - dsolomon 15y ago
    I continue to work for the governments larger contracting companies. Top 50 http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011.aspx http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011....
    - sounds 15y ago
      I omitted Northrop Grumman intentionally; they seem to still value engineering prowess. Please don't misunderstand me - there are awesome opportunities working for a US government contractor. However, the "golden days" of the cold war are long gone.
  - davidhansen 15y ago
    The mythical high paying jobs are in the "private sector." Well, no. In my local market, $120k is very, very well paid for a typical developer at a typical company. The > $120k salaries you see mentioned on HN are an artifact of two types of companies: 1. Venture-backed startups who don't particularly care about cost management. 2. Large, highly profitable software enterprises like GOOG, MSFT, AAPL. Step outside these two realms, and developer compensation drops very rapidly.
- 3pt14159 15y ago

by maeon3 15y ago

betterth 15y ago

Honestly, I agree. Most business views labor as a commodity and they intentionally divorce the human element away to make sure that they can make 'smart' decisions. If you want to keep developers who are on top of their game or who are aggressively improving themselves, than you have to aggressively match them. If you want to hire someone and train them and ensure a ROI, make them sign a contract to stay for a certain amount of time. (Or implement any other myriad of incentives to keep people to stay. Why is an employees responsibility to stay, but not an employers responsibility to incentivize them? "Working for us" is not incentive to work for you!!) But if you're not willing to compete for labor as a commodity, than you're wanting a cake and to eat it as well. Take your pick. Labor is a humanless commodity and we will all continue to make decisions as if it is, or it isn't and your developers deserve to reap the fruits of their labor.

e28eta 15y ago

Poor pay was my first thought too. Glassdoor doesn't have much info on this particular company, but there are complaints about pay, and no raise in 5 years: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Harry-Fox-Agency-Reviews-E256404.htm http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Harry-Fox-Agency-Reviews-E2...

fennecfoxen 15y ago

My managers have generally been worth their pay. Of course, I'm not working at a dysfunctional company trying to cheat me out of what I'm worth. :)

dsolomon 15y ago

I know developers with government clearances that would be happy to make half that. Where are there mythical high paying jobs? FantasyLand?

sounds 15y ago
Maybe I'm stereotyping you as one of the LockMart/Boeing/Raytheon new hires. I know a good dozen personally. They have problems. * underpaid * false promises of a career track to avoid giving you real compensation like stock options or bonuses * deep cuts when the winds of politics aren't blowing your way * poor workplace ergonomics The mythical high paying jobs are in the "private sector."
- dsolomon 15y ago
  I continue to work for the governments larger contracting companies. Top 50 http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011.aspx http://washingtontechnology.com/toplists/top-100-lists/2011....
  - sounds 15y ago
    I omitted Northrop Grumman intentionally; they seem to still value engineering prowess. Please don't misunderstand me - there are awesome opportunities working for a US government contractor. However, the "golden days" of the cold war are long gone.
- davidhansen 15y ago
  The mythical high paying jobs are in the "private sector." Well, no. In my local market, $120k is very, very well paid for a typical developer at a typical company. The > $120k salaries you see mentioned on HN are an artifact of two types of companies: 1. Venture-backed startups who don't particularly care about cost management. 2. Large, highly profitable software enterprises like GOOG, MSFT, AAPL. Step outside these two realms, and developer compensation drops very rapidly.
3pt14159 15y ago