7 ms·

How Facebook Is Selling Your Timeline to Advertisers

166 points by shakes 15y ago

untog 15y ago
I think we've reached the point where no-one should be surprised about this. And besides: What most users don’t know is that the new features being introduced are all centered around increasing the value of Facebook to advertisers Centered? I don't know. Timeline seems pretty user-centric to me. I've had it for a few months as a developer, but since it became public I've seen plenty of my friends filling out details, tagging their friends in previous big life events... they're not doing it because Facebook tricked them into it, they're doing it because they want to. Yes, there is also an advertiser advantage to this- same as any information you plug into Facebook. But I don't think it's fair to paint Facebook as cynically putting Timeline together so that they can mine data. If you're comfortable with the way Facebook makes money (which, personally, I am) there's nothing to go crazy about in here.
- Nstojan 15y ago
  Exactly. When someone throws the old (yes, old) "Facebook monetizes the info that you post" argument in my face, the only thing I understand is that he's either new to Facebook and skipped the terms or... I don't know. Bottom line is, Google did the same thing more or less when they introduced Google instant (reducing "I feel lucky" usage to serve more links) and, this might sound harsh, both are companies aim to make money while at the same time improve your user experience by serving targeted ads. Seriously, it's nothing ground-breaking that no one knows.
  - mathewi 15y ago
    I had a similar reaction, so I blogged about it here: "News flash: Yes, Facebook is selling you to advertisers" http://gigaom.com/2011/12/23/news-flash-yes-facebook-is-selling-you-to-advertisers/ http://gigaom.com/2011/12/23/news-flash-yes-facebook-is-sell...
- jdp23 15y ago
  Most of the people I talk with don't like the idea of their pictures and words being shown to their friends as ads for products. Most of the people I talk with don't like the idea that things on their profile and in their feed are influenced by how much money Facebook can charge from ads. Most people I talk with are already sick of Facebook changing their interface and pretty skeptical about Timeline (they don't have the time to invest in tweaking it, they're concerned about old status messages and photos becoming a lot more visible) so get irritated when reminded that it's main goal is to maximize -exploitation- revenue. So yeah, it's true that at some level nobody's particularly surprised by this any more. People are sick of Facebook and waiting for what's next, and for most of them Timeline will just reinforce those feelings.
  - untog 15y ago
    Most people I talk with are already sick of Facebook changing their interface and pretty skeptical about Timeline Most people 'hate' every single change Facebook has ever made, yet somehow manage to totally forget about it within about two months. People hate change. Honestly, if "most people" are annoyed that Facebook serves ads based on the content of their profile then they should leave Facebook. Because that's the business model the site operates on.
    - jdp23 15y ago
      I don't think they forget about it, any more than they forget about Facebook's pattern of privacy abuses and Mark's non-apologies. If there were an easy-to-use alternative, the people I talk to would love to leave FB instantly; as it is, they're cutting down how much they use it and feeling increasingly resentful. So yes they've posted great numbers in 2011 but from a competitive strategy perspective they're vulnerable.
      - untog 15y ago
        The people you talk to are not typical. "Most people" aren't aware/bothered by the privacy aspects of Facebook- just look at the number of visible, insecure profiles. Facebook is not vulnerable from a privacy standpoint- that was the reason everyone said that they were moving to Google+. They didn't.
- jwblackwell 15y ago
  Agreed, this is hardly surprising and the over inflammatory title is highly unfair. If you add more information to Facebook then of course this will be improving the appeal of the platforms to advertisers, don't like it? Stop using it. It's not like there selling your address and phone number which MANY brick and mortar companies would do given the chance. I get to use a great product without having to put my hand in my wallet, Facebook can continue to grow as a business, the end product improves.
cienrak 15y ago
Isn't this just how the sausage is made? It is interesting that Timeline actually makes it easier to disrupt the flow of personal information and privilege ads over friends. But this is how the marketing department of any big company would see it. Can't IPO without getting your hands dirty.
- killnine 15y ago
  Almost severing sharing
pork 15y ago
Can't we dispense with the inflammatory and misleading headlines, PLEASE? As before, FB is selling space on your timeline, not the contents of it. This is comparable to the targeted ads Hotmail (if I recall) used to insert into outgoing emails. I don't like it, just as I didn't like ads in my email, but it's a far cry from what the headline implies.
- cienrak 15y ago
  The headline isn't misleading. The piece is literally about how Facebook is pitching this big change to marketers.
- SoftwareMaven 15y ago
  According to TFA, the ordering of your timeline is influenced by how much people pay Facebook. Sounds like selling my timeline to me.
  - orijing 15y ago
    If that were true, the sponsored content would be labeled. See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3388106 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3388106
j45 15y ago
So, if you don't activate timeline... there's nothing to sell?
- jay_m 15y ago
  The article mentions that Timeline will be activated on all Facebook accounts by the end of this year.
  - silverbax88 15y ago
    I really don't know, but it sure seems like a potential horrible, Netflix level misstep. There's no evidence that FB users want Timeline or that it will work the way they want their social network to work.
    - conradfr 15y ago
      As an average FB user I must admit I don't see the appeal in Timeline. I don't find it clear nor readable but it could be some resistance to change.
    - smackfu 15y ago
      OTOH, it's just your personal page, not your news feed. One probably has 100x the daily hits of the other.
- cejung 15y ago
  your just the same old stripper. Timeline is straight pimpin' on the street.
cejung 15y ago
The end is near Facebook. Milk Wall Street while you can bro.
rblion 15y ago
Big Brother Blue is growing bigger and we are not humans from their perspective, we are data converted to profit. This was expected, not a surprise.
- rblion 15y ago
  neg away. this is the blunt truth, not a coincidence that these 'innovations' are unveiled this close to the IPO. they want to cash in before while they can. the greater the rise, the greater the fall, gravity is not sentimental.
suprgeek 15y ago
An excellent time to mention the FB Purity extension http://www.fbpurity.com/ http://www.fbpurity.com/ where F.B stands for fluff bustin (due to Copyright asserted on the word "Facebook") If you must use this necessary evil called FB, I think it is high time users started pushing back on the types of info they want to see and are willing to put-up with.
dmvaldman 15y ago
Facebook is so brilliant. I don't see why everyone is whining. Our world is based fundamentally on consumption, and thus advertising is integral. In time, advertising is only on a path to becoming more effective. And to do so it will become more integrated with our lives. History confirms: this is quite unavoidable. Plan accordingly. However, while Google spends countless resources tinkering with their ad delivery algorithms to get that 1% increase that generates them millions more revenue, FB rolls in with a new paradigm that I'm sure will leapfrog whatever Google has done. Brilliant.
- dhimes 15y ago
  ”If you’ve liked that business’s page, the story about you liking the page (including your name or profile photo) may be paired with the ad your friends see.” I completely agree with you that this is a brilliant game-changer. I don't like it, and won't be a part of it, but there is no question that I would have an emotional response to the picture of one of my friends "liking" a restaurant or a product. And, I suspect it will be allowed as long as it is clearly spelled out in the TOS (for those who didn't read, there is some dissent and even legal action concerning using the photos of people without direct consent). I also doubt that people will quit FB because of it. This reminds me a bit about the (small) uproar when brands like Nike were just starting to sell T-shirts with their names on them. Many of us said, "Why would I pay money to advertise for them? They should pay me to wear it!) Nevertheless, most people were perfectly willing to spend the money and advertise the logo. Here it is at least clear that the consumer is getting something for his/her willingness to advertise: s/he is getting the use of FB.
  - jacquesm 15y ago
    > I would have an emotional response to the picture of one of my friends "liking" a restaurant or a product. The first time I saw an article that was 'liked' by one of my friends on HN I definitely had an emotional response. I logged out of facebook and never went back.
- fl3tch 15y ago
  If I'm going to appear in ads, then I want a cut of the revenue, just like every other compensated endorser.
silentscope 15y ago
http://www.tony5m17h.net/MatrixHumanField.gif http://www.tony5m17h.net/MatrixHumanField.gif
artursapek 15y ago
You know, this has something to it. For weeks the first story in the top-right module of my timeline said I "liked" Bed Bath & Beyond, and for weeks I wondered why it wasn't being pushed off by the other things that go through that little box (new friendships, attending events, etc). I guess Bed Bath & Beyond is a customer. I honestly like this though, because the ad is reactive to their merit - I went and clicked that like button. Facebook is so clever. They're turning parts of our activity into advertisements by making them somewhat longer-lasting. It's much more pleasant than having an Acura ad shoved down my throat on YouTube, or having to drive past a smug 100-foot McDonalds ad every morning.
blacksmythe 15y ago
>> new features being introduced are all centered around increasing the value of Facebook to advertisers <Casablanca ref> Facebook's business model is selling eyeballs to advertisers? I am shocked... shocked. </Casablanca ref>
orijing 15y ago
Hi, I'm an engineer from Facebook's ads team. I worked on ads for Timeline. The article's unsubstantiated premise is that Facebook releases products solely with its bottom line in mind. Based on my experience working on ads for Timeline, I'd say that this is antithetical to our nature. We optimized timeline for user experience (engagement) and released it not because of its impact to our bottom line but DESPITE that. If you aren't convinced, look at the ads on Timeline, and compare to Profile. There were on average four ads per Profile page. Now there's two. People also click away a lot faster on Profile (because there's less content), but people now scroll around and navigate within Timeline. Photos are bigger, we show a lot more content. The resources to support these new products are expensive. If this doesn't illustrate our focus on engagement over our bottom line, color me surprised. Just another point I wanted to clarify: Whenever money changed hands, even for organic content like sponsored stories, they are clearly labeled "Sponsored." If you don't see Sponsored, there was no optimization for revenue, because no money changed hands. Ultimately, I think the author is exploiting a confusion between news feed and timeline. Sure, we will experiment with sponsoring organic content in news feed (max one), but they will be clearly labeled and things you can already see. I just wanted to clarify a few issues that the author is either truly confused about, or is aware of but intentionally exploiting. I hope this helped. If you have any questions I can answer, I'll be happy to clarify.
- ktusznio 15y ago
  Just because Timeline shows fewer ads doesn't mean that net ad revenue doesn't come out ahead. Sponsored stories just need to make up for those 3 missing ads, which they almost surely will. Optimizing for user engagement, when you make money off of ads, is optimizing for the bottom line by definition. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best.
  - orijing 15y ago
    > Optimizing for user engagement, when you make money off of ads, is optimizing for the bottom line by definition. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best. Well, optimizing for f(x) (revenue) is different than optimizing for g(x) (engagement), which is related to f(x), and claiming that we are objectively optimizing for f(x). Not sure if that makes sense, but you are right that it is to our long term interest to optimize for user engagement, not because it necessarily optimizes our revenue, but it optimizes our value for users. That's not the same as optimizing for revenue directly, though, so calling that "disingenuous at best" is a little misguided.

166 points by shakes 15y ago

untog 15y ago

I think we've reached the point where no-one should be surprised about this. And besides: What most users don’t know is that the new features being introduced are all centered around increasing the value of Facebook to advertisers Centered? I don't know. Timeline seems pretty user-centric to me. I've had it for a few months as a developer, but since it became public I've seen plenty of my friends filling out details, tagging their friends in previous big life events... they're not doing it because Facebook tricked them into it, they're doing it because they want to. Yes, there is also an advertiser advantage to this- same as any information you plug into Facebook. But I don't think it's fair to paint Facebook as cynically putting Timeline together so that they can mine data. If you're comfortable with the way Facebook makes money (which, personally, I am) there's nothing to go crazy about in here.

Nstojan 15y ago
Exactly. When someone throws the old (yes, old) "Facebook monetizes the info that you post" argument in my face, the only thing I understand is that he's either new to Facebook and skipped the terms or... I don't know. Bottom line is, Google did the same thing more or less when they introduced Google instant (reducing "I feel lucky" usage to serve more links) and, this might sound harsh, both are companies aim to make money while at the same time improve your user experience by serving targeted ads. Seriously, it's nothing ground-breaking that no one knows.
- mathewi 15y ago
  I had a similar reaction, so I blogged about it here: "News flash: Yes, Facebook is selling you to advertisers" http://gigaom.com/2011/12/23/news-flash-yes-facebook-is-selling-you-to-advertisers/ http://gigaom.com/2011/12/23/news-flash-yes-facebook-is-sell...
jdp23 15y ago
Most of the people I talk with don't like the idea of their pictures and words being shown to their friends as ads for products. Most of the people I talk with don't like the idea that things on their profile and in their feed are influenced by how much money Facebook can charge from ads. Most people I talk with are already sick of Facebook changing their interface and pretty skeptical about Timeline (they don't have the time to invest in tweaking it, they're concerned about old status messages and photos becoming a lot more visible) so get irritated when reminded that it's main goal is to maximize -exploitation- revenue. So yeah, it's true that at some level nobody's particularly surprised by this any more. People are sick of Facebook and waiting for what's next, and for most of them Timeline will just reinforce those feelings.
- untog 15y ago
  Most people I talk with are already sick of Facebook changing their interface and pretty skeptical about Timeline Most people 'hate' every single change Facebook has ever made, yet somehow manage to totally forget about it within about two months. People hate change. Honestly, if "most people" are annoyed that Facebook serves ads based on the content of their profile then they should leave Facebook. Because that's the business model the site operates on.
  - jdp23 15y ago
    I don't think they forget about it, any more than they forget about Facebook's pattern of privacy abuses and Mark's non-apologies. If there were an easy-to-use alternative, the people I talk to would love to leave FB instantly; as it is, they're cutting down how much they use it and feeling increasingly resentful. So yes they've posted great numbers in 2011 but from a competitive strategy perspective they're vulnerable.
    - untog 15y ago
      The people you talk to are not typical. "Most people" aren't aware/bothered by the privacy aspects of Facebook- just look at the number of visible, insecure profiles. Facebook is not vulnerable from a privacy standpoint- that was the reason everyone said that they were moving to Google+. They didn't.
jwblackwell 15y ago
Agreed, this is hardly surprising and the over inflammatory title is highly unfair. If you add more information to Facebook then of course this will be improving the appeal of the platforms to advertisers, don't like it? Stop using it. It's not like there selling your address and phone number which MANY brick and mortar companies would do given the chance. I get to use a great product without having to put my hand in my wallet, Facebook can continue to grow as a business, the end product improves.

cienrak 15y ago

Isn't this just how the sausage is made? It is interesting that Timeline actually makes it easier to disrupt the flow of personal information and privilege ads over friends. But this is how the marketing department of any big company would see it. Can't IPO without getting your hands dirty.

killnine 15y ago
Almost severing sharing

pork 15y ago

Can't we dispense with the inflammatory and misleading headlines, PLEASE? As before, FB is selling space on your timeline, not the contents of it. This is comparable to the targeted ads Hotmail (if I recall) used to insert into outgoing emails. I don't like it, just as I didn't like ads in my email, but it's a far cry from what the headline implies.

cienrak 15y ago
The headline isn't misleading. The piece is literally about how Facebook is pitching this big change to marketers.
SoftwareMaven 15y ago
According to TFA, the ordering of your timeline is influenced by how much people pay Facebook. Sounds like selling my timeline to me.
- orijing 15y ago
  If that were true, the sponsored content would be labeled. See http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3388106 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3388106

j45 15y ago

So, if you don't activate timeline... there's nothing to sell?

jay_m 15y ago
The article mentions that Timeline will be activated on all Facebook accounts by the end of this year.
- silverbax88 15y ago
  I really don't know, but it sure seems like a potential horrible, Netflix level misstep. There's no evidence that FB users want Timeline or that it will work the way they want their social network to work.
  - conradfr 15y ago
    As an average FB user I must admit I don't see the appeal in Timeline. I don't find it clear nor readable but it could be some resistance to change.
  - smackfu 15y ago
    OTOH, it's just your personal page, not your news feed. One probably has 100x the daily hits of the other.
cejung 15y ago
your just the same old stripper. Timeline is straight pimpin' on the street.

cejung 15y ago

The end is near Facebook. Milk Wall Street while you can bro.

rblion 15y ago

Big Brother Blue is growing bigger and we are not humans from their perspective, we are data converted to profit. This was expected, not a surprise.

rblion 15y ago
neg away. this is the blunt truth, not a coincidence that these 'innovations' are unveiled this close to the IPO. they want to cash in before while they can. the greater the rise, the greater the fall, gravity is not sentimental.

suprgeek 15y ago

An excellent time to mention the FB Purity extension http://www.fbpurity.com/ http://www.fbpurity.com/ where F.B stands for fluff bustin (due to Copyright asserted on the word "Facebook") If you must use this necessary evil called FB, I think it is high time users started pushing back on the types of info they want to see and are willing to put-up with.

dmvaldman 15y ago

Facebook is so brilliant. I don't see why everyone is whining. Our world is based fundamentally on consumption, and thus advertising is integral. In time, advertising is only on a path to becoming more effective. And to do so it will become more integrated with our lives. History confirms: this is quite unavoidable. Plan accordingly. However, while Google spends countless resources tinkering with their ad delivery algorithms to get that 1% increase that generates them millions more revenue, FB rolls in with a new paradigm that I'm sure will leapfrog whatever Google has done. Brilliant.

dhimes 15y ago
”If you’ve liked that business’s page, the story about you liking the page (including your name or profile photo) may be paired with the ad your friends see.” I completely agree with you that this is a brilliant game-changer. I don't like it, and won't be a part of it, but there is no question that I would have an emotional response to the picture of one of my friends "liking" a restaurant or a product. And, I suspect it will be allowed as long as it is clearly spelled out in the TOS (for those who didn't read, there is some dissent and even legal action concerning using the photos of people without direct consent). I also doubt that people will quit FB because of it. This reminds me a bit about the (small) uproar when brands like Nike were just starting to sell T-shirts with their names on them. Many of us said, "Why would I pay money to advertise for them? They should pay me to wear it!) Nevertheless, most people were perfectly willing to spend the money and advertise the logo. Here it is at least clear that the consumer is getting something for his/her willingness to advertise: s/he is getting the use of FB.
- jacquesm 15y ago
  > I would have an emotional response to the picture of one of my friends "liking" a restaurant or a product. The first time I saw an article that was 'liked' by one of my friends on HN I definitely had an emotional response. I logged out of facebook and never went back.
fl3tch 15y ago
If I'm going to appear in ads, then I want a cut of the revenue, just like every other compensated endorser.

silentscope 15y ago

http://www.tony5m17h.net/MatrixHumanField.gif http://www.tony5m17h.net/MatrixHumanField.gif

artursapek 15y ago

You know, this has something to it. For weeks the first story in the top-right module of my timeline said I "liked" Bed Bath & Beyond, and for weeks I wondered why it wasn't being pushed off by the other things that go through that little box (new friendships, attending events, etc). I guess Bed Bath & Beyond is a customer. I honestly like this though, because the ad is reactive to their merit - I went and clicked that like button. Facebook is so clever. They're turning parts of our activity into advertisements by making them somewhat longer-lasting. It's much more pleasant than having an Acura ad shoved down my throat on YouTube, or having to drive past a smug 100-foot McDonalds ad every morning.

blacksmythe 15y ago

>> new features being introduced are all centered around increasing the value of Facebook to advertisers <Casablanca ref> Facebook's business model is selling eyeballs to advertisers? I am shocked... shocked. </Casablanca ref>

orijing 15y ago

Hi, I'm an engineer from Facebook's ads team. I worked on ads for Timeline. The article's unsubstantiated premise is that Facebook releases products solely with its bottom line in mind. Based on my experience working on ads for Timeline, I'd say that this is antithetical to our nature. We optimized timeline for user experience (engagement) and released it not because of its impact to our bottom line but DESPITE that. If you aren't convinced, look at the ads on Timeline, and compare to Profile. There were on average four ads per Profile page. Now there's two. People also click away a lot faster on Profile (because there's less content), but people now scroll around and navigate within Timeline. Photos are bigger, we show a lot more content. The resources to support these new products are expensive. If this doesn't illustrate our focus on engagement over our bottom line, color me surprised. Just another point I wanted to clarify: Whenever money changed hands, even for organic content like sponsored stories, they are clearly labeled "Sponsored." If you don't see Sponsored, there was no optimization for revenue, because no money changed hands. Ultimately, I think the author is exploiting a confusion between news feed and timeline. Sure, we will experiment with sponsoring organic content in news feed (max one), but they will be clearly labeled and things you can already see. I just wanted to clarify a few issues that the author is either truly confused about, or is aware of but intentionally exploiting. I hope this helped. If you have any questions I can answer, I'll be happy to clarify.

ktusznio 15y ago
Just because Timeline shows fewer ads doesn't mean that net ad revenue doesn't come out ahead. Sponsored stories just need to make up for those 3 missing ads, which they almost surely will. Optimizing for user engagement, when you make money off of ads, is optimizing for the bottom line by definition. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best.
- orijing 15y ago
  > Optimizing for user engagement, when you make money off of ads, is optimizing for the bottom line by definition. To claim otherwise is disingenuous at best. Well, optimizing for f(x) (revenue) is different than optimizing for g(x) (engagement), which is related to f(x), and claiming that we are objectively optimizing for f(x). Not sure if that makes sense, but you are right that it is to our long term interest to optimize for user engagement, not because it necessarily optimizes our revenue, but it optimizes our value for users. That's not the same as optimizing for revenue directly, though, so calling that "disingenuous at best" is a little misguided.