4 ms·

No wonder Netflix has such a huge emphasis on engineering talent.

by ww520 4y ago

gardenhedge 4y ago
But Netflix was originally DVD rental. At that time it wasn't a tech company was it?
- znkynz 4y ago
  Do you consider Amazon a tech company prior to AWS product launch?
  - cjglo 4y ago
    It was an online website right around the dot com bubble. It definitely was a tech company by that time’s standards. Nowadays every company has an online store, but that was not the case when Amazon was selling books online that you usually had to go to a store for.
    - chx 4y ago
      > It was an online website right around the dot com bubble. Much sooner than that. Amazon started in 1995. Not a lot of ecommerce websites existed then. One the earlier ones is Powell's Books which started selling in 1993 via telnet, in 1994 via web.
  - jm20 4y ago
    Amazon made web-based book selling mainstream. Emphasis on web. Of course it was a tech company.
    - xwolfi 4y ago
      And the web based dvd rental then ? I mean, they were doing exactly the same as Amazon, why distinguish?
    - gardenhedge 4y ago
      Banks have online customer sites. Are they tech companies?
      - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
        If they did it when Amazon started their web store they would be. How do you think Amazon infra gave birth to AWS? Does that sound to you like something a retail company would do?
      - Throw10987 4y ago
        Banks are tech companies, the business leadership just don't know it.
        gpderetta 4y ago
        The business leadership of some banks do in fact know it.
- version_five 4y ago
  Tech company did and still does to an extent refer to "online" first, vs brick and mortar. In the context of the dot com boom, they were definitely tech
- jandrewrogers 4y ago
  Netflix was originally intended as a streaming company. The DVD rentals were a strategy to solve some non-technical problems with the business while the infrastructure for streaming caught up.
  - gabcoh 4y ago
    That's fascinating and an incredible example of long term planning. Do you have a source for this? edit: A very cursory check of the Wikipedia page and https://www.vox.com/2017/9/13/16288364/streampunks-book-excerpt-youtube-netflix-pivot-video https://www.vox.com/2017/9/13/16288364/streampunks-book-exce... suggest that it probably isn't true that Netflix was "originally intended as a streaming company" considering at it's founding online streaming was still far from feasible, but I'm open to evidence to the contrary.
    - jandrewrogers 4y ago
      My source is that I worked at Netflix in the early days, it was always part of the strategy. We were discussing streaming internally almost a decade before they actually delivered it. While streaming technology was early and teetering on the edge of viability, the real challenge was maneuvering the studios to license content that they didn't want to license because they wanted to retain absolute control. They were very averse to streaming for multiple reasons. The gambit of using DVDs in a series of Hobson's choices for the studios almost worked but ultimately failed at the late stages for an important reason that was difficult to bridge.
    - wahern 4y ago
      From Netflix's IPO prospectus, dated May 22, 2002: > We currently provide titles to our subscribers on DVD only. However, we continue to monitor additional delivery technologies and, when appropriate, believe that we are well-positioned to offer digital distribution and additional delivery options to our subscribers. And further down, a bullet point in their growth strategy section: > Implementing Digital Delivery. We continuously monitor the development of additional digital distribution technologies. Historically, new technologies, including the VCR and more recently the DVD player, have led to the creation of additional distribution channels for filmed entertainment. We intend to utilize our strong relationships with the studios to obtain rights to acquire and deliver filmed entertainment through emerging digital distribution platforms as they become economically, commercially and technologically viable for those subscribers who prefer digital distribution. And later, regarding competition: > We believe that our strategy of developing a large and growing subscriber base and our ability to personalize our library to each subscriber by leveraging our extensive database of user preferences positions us favorably to provide digital distribution of filmed entertainment as that market develops. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1065280/000101287002002475/d424b4.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1065280/000101287002... Streaming on the internet was already exploding by 1997; relatively speaking, of course. I distinctly remember first watching South Park--myself and several other students, working in the computer lab technical assistance office for work-study, huddled around a Mac. This likely would have been circa 1998-1999, if not late 1997 when it debuted. (In fact, I don't think I ever watched South Park on cable television until many years later, while staying at hotels.) Around that time I also remember a major, well-funded streaming website that was supposed to revolutionize Indie film distribution. Anybody working in computing or the film industry knew where distribution was heading--the only question was when all the pieces would come together to make it viable, broadband adoption being the most important. (Not sure if a majority of American households were yet "online", but if not that was already a rapidly approaching inevitability.) There were many ventures which dove in too early. While I wasn't paying attention to (or even knew much about) Netflix before it's IPO, certainly by then it was well recognized--and recognized as brilliant--that Netflix's strategy was to build relationships with studios and rights holders on the one hand, and customers on the other, precisely to position themselves to dominate digital distribution when the time came. Online DVD rentals was the ramp, permitting them to build momentum so they'd have a head start ahead of anybody else in the digital distribution space. And it worked spectacularly; it took nearly a decade, if not more, for anybody to even come close to Netflix's lead. (Wikipedia says Netflix began streaming in 2007, same year as Hulu, but Netflix was still dominating until only a few years ago.)
- mwlp 4y ago
  I follow Marc Randolph on Tiktok and he's spoken before that they knew things would eventually go online: https://www.tiktok.com/@marc_randolph/video/7079079298182909230 https://www.tiktok.com/@marc_randolph/video/7079079298182909...
  - gardenhedge 4y ago
    Is there anything to support that history? Documents from that 1997? Considering the company was founded by just trying to come up with random ideas I doubt they had too much foresight.
- serf 4y ago
  it absolutely was a tech company. the 'Cinematch' recommender , replaced eventually, was one of the differences brought-up in the netflix/blockbuster lawsuits.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gumby 4y ago
  They were a tech company of their time: they had an excellent web site, search (and recommendation IIRC) etc, especially compared to most of their contemporaries. Nowadays I wouldn't consider anyone in the DVD-renting business to be a tech company. I would still consider Netflix a tech business under their current business model. Note that Netflix is relatively small and not really in control of their fate; they were presumably included in the "FAANG" acronym to make it fun. Now that two of those companies have changed their name it doesn't even fit (A, A, A, M and...N? Not the other M?)
  - jedberg 4y ago
    Netflix was included in FAANG because it was a high growth tech stock, growing faster than all the others when it was included. It was the fastest growing stock on the market multiple times in the 2010s and was the fastest growing stock for the entire decade.
  - adql 4y ago
    > (A, A, A, M and...N? Not the other M?) Well now we can say "MAAAAN it went downhill"
  - pmoriarty 4y ago
    "Nowadays I wouldn't consider anyone in the DVD-renting business to be a tech company." Netflix still rents DVDs.[1] I actually much prefer their DVD service, because their selection of movies on DVD is infinitely superior to their streaming service, whose selection is absolutely atrocious. Netflix's streaming service might have world-class delivery, but what they deliver is crap. [1] - https://dvd.netflix.com/ https://dvd.netflix.com/
- Mistletoe 4y ago
  Sending dvds all over the USA with such quick turnaround was more impressive to me than streaming video.
- myhf 4y ago
  Recommendation accuracy was much more important for DVD rental, because of the wider selection of content and the slower feedback loop. So a good recommendation algorithm was a core competency for the business.
  - lr1970 4y ago
    And when seeing his internal recommendation algorithm team hitting the wall in recommendation accuracy, Hastings boldly created a 1M$ "Netflix Prize" competition to create a better recommendation algorithm [0]. This boosted research efforts in the field and earned him and Netflix respect in ML academic circles. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize
- noboostforyou 4y ago
  > At that time it wasn't a tech company was it? At that time you would have to physically shop at Blockbuster to pick out a movie to watch. With Netflix you picked what you wanted to watch online, maintained a queue and they would automatically send you DVDs through the mail. It was absolutely a tech company since its inception.

No wonder Netflix has such a huge emphasis on engineering talent.

by ww520 4y ago

No wonder Netflix has such a huge emphasis on engineering talent.

gardenhedge 4y ago

But Netflix was originally DVD rental. At that time it wasn't a tech company was it?

znkynz 4y ago
Do you consider Amazon a tech company prior to AWS product launch?
- cjglo 4y ago
  It was an online website right around the dot com bubble. It definitely was a tech company by that time’s standards. Nowadays every company has an online store, but that was not the case when Amazon was selling books online that you usually had to go to a store for.
  - chx 4y ago
    > It was an online website right around the dot com bubble. Much sooner than that. Amazon started in 1995. Not a lot of ecommerce websites existed then. One the earlier ones is Powell's Books which started selling in 1993 via telnet, in 1994 via web.
- jm20 4y ago
  Amazon made web-based book selling mainstream. Emphasis on web. Of course it was a tech company.
  - xwolfi 4y ago
    And the web based dvd rental then ? I mean, they were doing exactly the same as Amazon, why distinguish?
  - gardenhedge 4y ago
    Banks have online customer sites. Are they tech companies?
    - WastingMyTime89 4y ago
      If they did it when Amazon started their web store they would be. How do you think Amazon infra gave birth to AWS? Does that sound to you like something a retail company would do?
    - Throw10987 4y ago
      Banks are tech companies, the business leadership just don't know it.
      - gpderetta 4y ago
        The business leadership of some banks do in fact know it.
version_five 4y ago
Tech company did and still does to an extent refer to "online" first, vs brick and mortar. In the context of the dot com boom, they were definitely tech
jandrewrogers 4y ago
Netflix was originally intended as a streaming company. The DVD rentals were a strategy to solve some non-technical problems with the business while the infrastructure for streaming caught up.
- gabcoh 4y ago
  That's fascinating and an incredible example of long term planning. Do you have a source for this? edit: A very cursory check of the Wikipedia page and https://www.vox.com/2017/9/13/16288364/streampunks-book-excerpt-youtube-netflix-pivot-video https://www.vox.com/2017/9/13/16288364/streampunks-book-exce... suggest that it probably isn't true that Netflix was "originally intended as a streaming company" considering at it's founding online streaming was still far from feasible, but I'm open to evidence to the contrary.
  - jandrewrogers 4y ago
    My source is that I worked at Netflix in the early days, it was always part of the strategy. We were discussing streaming internally almost a decade before they actually delivered it. While streaming technology was early and teetering on the edge of viability, the real challenge was maneuvering the studios to license content that they didn't want to license because they wanted to retain absolute control. They were very averse to streaming for multiple reasons. The gambit of using DVDs in a series of Hobson's choices for the studios almost worked but ultimately failed at the late stages for an important reason that was difficult to bridge.
  - wahern 4y ago
    From Netflix's IPO prospectus, dated May 22, 2002: > We currently provide titles to our subscribers on DVD only. However, we continue to monitor additional delivery technologies and, when appropriate, believe that we are well-positioned to offer digital distribution and additional delivery options to our subscribers. And further down, a bullet point in their growth strategy section: > Implementing Digital Delivery. We continuously monitor the development of additional digital distribution technologies. Historically, new technologies, including the VCR and more recently the DVD player, have led to the creation of additional distribution channels for filmed entertainment. We intend to utilize our strong relationships with the studios to obtain rights to acquire and deliver filmed entertainment through emerging digital distribution platforms as they become economically, commercially and technologically viable for those subscribers who prefer digital distribution. And later, regarding competition: > We believe that our strategy of developing a large and growing subscriber base and our ability to personalize our library to each subscriber by leveraging our extensive database of user preferences positions us favorably to provide digital distribution of filmed entertainment as that market develops. https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1065280/000101287002002475/d424b4.htm https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1065280/000101287002... Streaming on the internet was already exploding by 1997; relatively speaking, of course. I distinctly remember first watching South Park--myself and several other students, working in the computer lab technical assistance office for work-study, huddled around a Mac. This likely would have been circa 1998-1999, if not late 1997 when it debuted. (In fact, I don't think I ever watched South Park on cable television until many years later, while staying at hotels.) Around that time I also remember a major, well-funded streaming website that was supposed to revolutionize Indie film distribution. Anybody working in computing or the film industry knew where distribution was heading--the only question was when all the pieces would come together to make it viable, broadband adoption being the most important. (Not sure if a majority of American households were yet "online", but if not that was already a rapidly approaching inevitability.) There were many ventures which dove in too early. While I wasn't paying attention to (or even knew much about) Netflix before it's IPO, certainly by then it was well recognized--and recognized as brilliant--that Netflix's strategy was to build relationships with studios and rights holders on the one hand, and customers on the other, precisely to position themselves to dominate digital distribution when the time came. Online DVD rentals was the ramp, permitting them to build momentum so they'd have a head start ahead of anybody else in the digital distribution space. And it worked spectacularly; it took nearly a decade, if not more, for anybody to even come close to Netflix's lead. (Wikipedia says Netflix began streaming in 2007, same year as Hulu, but Netflix was still dominating until only a few years ago.)
mwlp 4y ago
I follow Marc Randolph on Tiktok and he's spoken before that they knew things would eventually go online: https://www.tiktok.com/@marc_randolph/video/7079079298182909230 https://www.tiktok.com/@marc_randolph/video/7079079298182909...
- gardenhedge 4y ago
  Is there anything to support that history? Documents from that 1997? Considering the company was founded by just trying to come up with random ideas I doubt they had too much foresight.
serf 4y ago
it absolutely was a tech company. the 'Cinematch' recommender , replaced eventually, was one of the differences brought-up in the netflix/blockbuster lawsuits.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gumby 4y ago
They were a tech company of their time: they had an excellent web site, search (and recommendation IIRC) etc, especially compared to most of their contemporaries. Nowadays I wouldn't consider anyone in the DVD-renting business to be a tech company. I would still consider Netflix a tech business under their current business model. Note that Netflix is relatively small and not really in control of their fate; they were presumably included in the "FAANG" acronym to make it fun. Now that two of those companies have changed their name it doesn't even fit (A, A, A, M and...N? Not the other M?)
- jedberg 4y ago
  Netflix was included in FAANG because it was a high growth tech stock, growing faster than all the others when it was included. It was the fastest growing stock on the market multiple times in the 2010s and was the fastest growing stock for the entire decade.
- adql 4y ago
  > (A, A, A, M and...N? Not the other M?) Well now we can say "MAAAAN it went downhill"
- pmoriarty 4y ago
  "Nowadays I wouldn't consider anyone in the DVD-renting business to be a tech company." Netflix still rents DVDs.[1] I actually much prefer their DVD service, because their selection of movies on DVD is infinitely superior to their streaming service, whose selection is absolutely atrocious. Netflix's streaming service might have world-class delivery, but what they deliver is crap. [1] - https://dvd.netflix.com/ https://dvd.netflix.com/
Mistletoe 4y ago
Sending dvds all over the USA with such quick turnaround was more impressive to me than streaming video.
myhf 4y ago
Recommendation accuracy was much more important for DVD rental, because of the wider selection of content and the slower feedback loop. So a good recommendation algorithm was a core competency for the business.
- lr1970 4y ago
  And when seeing his internal recommendation algorithm team hitting the wall in recommendation accuracy, Hastings boldly created a 1M$ "Netflix Prize" competition to create a better recommendation algorithm [0]. This boosted research efforts in the field and earned him and Netflix respect in ML academic circles. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netflix_Prize
noboostforyou 4y ago
> At that time it wasn't a tech company was it? At that time you would have to physically shop at Blockbuster to pick out a movie to watch. With Netflix you picked what you wanted to watch online, maintained a queue and they would automatically send you DVDs through the mail. It was absolutely a tech company since its inception.