4 ms·

Debunking Statistical AI – Noam Chomsky, Gary Marcus, Jeremy Kahn [video]

27 points by aslukili 4y ago

aslukili 4y ago
At Web Summit, November 2022, The father of modern linguistics, Noam Chomsky, joins scientist, author and entrepreneur Gary Marcus for a wide-ranging discussion that touches on why the myths surrounding AI are so dangerous, the inadvisability of relying on artificial intelligence tech as a world-saver, and where it all went wrong.
- cuteboy19 4y ago
  Do either of these people know how anns work?
  - random314 4y ago
    Yes they do
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - bmitc 4y ago
    Do you know who Noam Chomsky is?
    - cuteboy19 4y ago
      [flagged]
      - VictorPath 4y ago
        Chomsky condemned the US ground invasion and carpet bombing of Kampuchea, which destabilized the country and I'm guessing the mass death of civilians from does not fit into your genocide definition. In 1975 the coalition led, nominally or not, by Sihanouk gained control of Kampuchea (again, in the case of Sihanouk). The US and west said a genocide was happening between 1975 and 1979, but immediately somewhat covertly, and then openly, began arming the coalition with Pol Pot and what the west called the Khmer Rouge.
        cuteboy19 4y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial Read the section on Chomsky. I have no desire to engage with someone who does not acknowledge what Chomsky himself admitted. It is the equivalent of saying that Jews were lying about the Holocaust because the allies happened to be the ones who liberated them
        VictorPath 4y ago
        I read this and Chomsky says what I said - the civilian deaths due to the US ground invasion and carpet bombing are ignored. Also, as I said, the US began arming the Khmer Rouge in 1979, and began openly arming them in the 1980s. So if the Khmer Rouge had committed a genocide, then that's who the US was arming to put back in power.
dang 4y ago
Url changed from https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PBdZi_JtV4c https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PBdZi_JtV4c, which points to this. I also changed the title to take out "Great AI Lie", which is obvious linkabit. From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait." If anyone can suggest a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title, we can change it again.
jshzglr 4y ago
"Just a waste of energy in California." (in regards to large language models) Chomsky is insufferable.
- Mikeb85 4y ago
  - smadge 4y ago
    Tankie used to describe a subset of online teenage Stalinists but now apparently describes anyone left of center.
    - Mikeb85 4y ago
      Chomsky fits the original definition including his absurd defense of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Also the fact he equates democracies and dictatorships and denies the idea that people have a right to freedom or say, to not be victims of genocide. It's become obvious he's just been a Russian asset all these years...
      - random314 4y ago
        These get trotted out without citations and it's boring each time. Chomsky supports Biden supplying arms to Ukraine, but also wants him to negotiate with Putin to end the war. He has also called Putins action despicable but predictable. People get their panties in a bunch because he said it was predictable which is blasphemy for those following the religion of the state. He also points out American aggression elsewhere, which is considered evil by folks like you.
        Mikeb85 4y ago
        https://truthout.org/articles/chomsky-options-for-diplomacy-decline-as-russias-war-on-ukraine-escalates/ https://truthout.org/articles/chomsky-options-for-diplomacy-... > Prior to Putin’s invasion there were options based generally on the Minsk agreements that might well have averted the crime. There is unresolved debate about whether Ukraine accepted these agreements. At least verbally, Russia appears to have done so up until not long before the invasion. The U.S. dismissed them in favor of integrating Ukraine into the NATO (that is, U.S.) military command, also refusing to take any Russian security concerns into consideration, as conceded. These moves were accelerated under Biden. Could diplomacy have succeeded in averting the tragedy? There was only one way to find out: Try. The option was ignored. > At the very least, the U.S. could withdraw its insistence on sustaining the war to weaken Russia, thus barring the way to diplomacy. > Talk of nuclear weapons has been mostly in the West. Russia has reiterated the universal position of nuclear states: that they might resort to nuclear weapons in the event of a threat to survival. https://therealnews.com/noam-chomsky-ukraine-climate-crisis-and-declining-empire https://therealnews.com/noam-chomsky-ukraine-climate-crisis-... https://www.democracynow.org/2022/10/10/noam_chomsky_vijay_prashad_china_ukraine https://www.democracynow.org/2022/10/10/noam_chomsky_vijay_p... > Well, one thing the United States can do is stop acting like that, stop — drop the position, the official position, that the war must go on to weaken Russia severely, meaning no negotiations. Would that open the way to negotiations, diplomacy? Can’t be sure. There’s only one way to find out. That’s to try. If you don’t try, of course it won’t happen. https://newpol.org/interview-on-the-war-in-ukraine-with-noam-chomsky/ https://newpol.org/interview-on-the-war-in-ukraine-with-noam... And so on... Almost everything he's said about the war is that it's the US' fault the war is still happening, repeated a bunch of Russian propaganda about the evils of the west and nothing about the Ukrainians' right to self-determination and self-defence.
Mc91 4y ago
Chomsky is saying what he has basically been saying for a while - deep learning neural networks are "strong" (as he called it) in engineering, but "weak" in being scientific.
leobg 4y ago
Chomsky’s gotta hate all forms of reinforcement learning successes. After all, what else are those if not the proof that his arch enemy BF Skinner was right. Chomsky came to fame by criticizing Skinner’s book “Verbal behavior“, arguing, there was more to language and intelligence than statistics. Now here we are, 30 years after Skinner’s death, and the closest thing we have to general artificial intelligence is based exactly on what Skinner described.
- cma 4y ago
  Ot once you consider paucity of the stimulus arguments and compare the data ingested (though also compute isn't there to match the brain yet so it is possible that goes away with more compute).
- eternalban 4y ago
  > the closest thing we have to general artificial intelligence is based exactly on what Skinner described. Didn't know about Skinner's book. My thoughts on encountering ChatGPT were exactly the same: this is statistics and not reasoning, yet it is truly powerful, in explicable ways. PV=nRt
up2isomorphism 4y ago
Anybody believe people think like linear algebra, does not understand how linear algebra works.

27 points by aslukili 4y ago

At Web Summit, November 2022, The father of modern linguistics, Noam Chomsky, joins scientist, author and entrepreneur Gary Marcus for a wide-ranging discussion that touches on why the myths surrounding AI are so dangerous, the inadvisability of relying on artificial intelligence tech as a world-saver, and where it all went wrong.

cuteboy19 4y ago
Do either of these people know how anns work?
- random314 4y ago
  Yes they do
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- bmitc 4y ago
  Do you know who Noam Chomsky is?
  - cuteboy19 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - VictorPath 4y ago
      Chomsky condemned the US ground invasion and carpet bombing of Kampuchea, which destabilized the country and I'm guessing the mass death of civilians from does not fit into your genocide definition. In 1975 the coalition led, nominally or not, by Sihanouk gained control of Kampuchea (again, in the case of Sihanouk). The US and west said a genocide was happening between 1975 and 1979, but immediately somewhat covertly, and then openly, began arming the coalition with Pol Pot and what the west called the Khmer Rouge.
      - cuteboy19 4y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cambodian_genocide_denial Read the section on Chomsky. I have no desire to engage with someone who does not acknowledge what Chomsky himself admitted. It is the equivalent of saying that Jews were lying about the Holocaust because the allies happened to be the ones who liberated them
        VictorPath 4y ago
        I read this and Chomsky says what I said - the civilian deaths due to the US ground invasion and carpet bombing are ignored. Also, as I said, the US began arming the Khmer Rouge in 1979, and began openly arming them in the 1980s. So if the Khmer Rouge had committed a genocide, then that's who the US was arming to put back in power.

dang 4y ago

Url changed from https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PBdZi_JtV4c https://yewtu.be/watch?v=PBdZi_JtV4c, which points to this. I also changed the title to take out "Great AI Lie", which is obvious linkabit. From https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html: "Please use the original title, unless it is misleading or linkbait." If anyone can suggest a better (i.e. more accurate and neutral) title, we can change it again.

jshzglr 4y ago

"Just a waste of energy in California." (in regards to large language models) Chomsky is insufferable.

Mikeb85 4y ago
- smadge 4y ago
  Tankie used to describe a subset of online teenage Stalinists but now apparently describes anyone left of center.
  - Mikeb85 4y ago
    Chomsky fits the original definition including his absurd defense of Russia's invasion of Ukraine. Also the fact he equates democracies and dictatorships and denies the idea that people have a right to freedom or say, to not be victims of genocide. It's become obvious he's just been a Russian asset all these years...
    - random314 4y ago
      These get trotted out without citations and it's boring each time. Chomsky supports Biden supplying arms to Ukraine, but also wants him to negotiate with Putin to end the war. He has also called Putins action despicable but predictable. People get their panties in a bunch because he said it was predictable which is blasphemy for those following the religion of the state. He also points out American aggression elsewhere, which is considered evil by folks like you.
      - Mikeb85 4y ago
        https://truthout.org/articles/chomsky-options-for-diplomacy-decline-as-russias-war-on-ukraine-escalates/ https://truthout.org/articles/chomsky-options-for-diplomacy-... > Prior to Putin’s invasion there were options based generally on the Minsk agreements that might well have averted the crime. There is unresolved debate about whether Ukraine accepted these agreements. At least verbally, Russia appears to have done so up until not long before the invasion. The U.S. dismissed them in favor of integrating Ukraine into the NATO (that is, U.S.) military command, also refusing to take any Russian security concerns into consideration, as conceded. These moves were accelerated under Biden. Could diplomacy have succeeded in averting the tragedy? There was only one way to find out: Try. The option was ignored. > At the very least, the U.S. could withdraw its insistence on sustaining the war to weaken Russia, thus barring the way to diplomacy. > Talk of nuclear weapons has been mostly in the West. Russia has reiterated the universal position of nuclear states: that they might resort to nuclear weapons in the event of a threat to survival. https://therealnews.com/noam-chomsky-ukraine-climate-crisis-and-declining-empire https://therealnews.com/noam-chomsky-ukraine-climate-crisis-... https://www.democracynow.org/2022/10/10/noam_chomsky_vijay_prashad_china_ukraine https://www.democracynow.org/2022/10/10/noam_chomsky_vijay_p... > Well, one thing the United States can do is stop acting like that, stop — drop the position, the official position, that the war must go on to weaken Russia severely, meaning no negotiations. Would that open the way to negotiations, diplomacy? Can’t be sure. There’s only one way to find out. That’s to try. If you don’t try, of course it won’t happen. https://newpol.org/interview-on-the-war-in-ukraine-with-noam-chomsky/ https://newpol.org/interview-on-the-war-in-ukraine-with-noam... And so on... Almost everything he's said about the war is that it's the US' fault the war is still happening, repeated a bunch of Russian propaganda about the evils of the west and nothing about the Ukrainians' right to self-determination and self-defence.

Mc91 4y ago

Chomsky is saying what he has basically been saying for a while - deep learning neural networks are "strong" (as he called it) in engineering, but "weak" in being scientific.

leobg 4y ago

Chomsky’s gotta hate all forms of reinforcement learning successes. After all, what else are those if not the proof that his arch enemy BF Skinner was right. Chomsky came to fame by criticizing Skinner’s book “Verbal behavior“, arguing, there was more to language and intelligence than statistics. Now here we are, 30 years after Skinner’s death, and the closest thing we have to general artificial intelligence is based exactly on what Skinner described.

cma 4y ago
Ot once you consider paucity of the stimulus arguments and compare the data ingested (though also compute isn't there to match the brain yet so it is possible that goes away with more compute).
eternalban 4y ago
> the closest thing we have to general artificial intelligence is based exactly on what Skinner described. Didn't know about Skinner's book. My thoughts on encountering ChatGPT were exactly the same: this is statistics and not reasoning, yet it is truly powerful, in explicable ways. PV=nRt

up2isomorphism 4y ago

Anybody believe people think like linear algebra, does not understand how linear algebra works.