3 ms·

TFA mentions Gore is putting a lot of money into R&D for PFA alternatives. They may fail, not sure if that is what you meant. But they will certainly try.

kragen 4y ago
no other class of materials is anywhere close to perfluorocarbons in many properties, such as low affinity for both water and hydrocarbons (and consequently fats), and ultraviolet resistance coupled with softness additionally such levels of resistance to biodegradation are rarely found in combination with either of the previous two qualities no other known organic compounds, out of the currently 182 million assigned cas numbers, are as thermally stable we are not talking about the kind of research and development that a company can carry out over a commercially viable timescale; we're talking about fundamental breakthroughs in material engineering perfluorocarbons were discovered almost a century ago, and nothing equaling or exceeding their properties in these ways has been discovered since moreover, there are fundamental reasons to suspect that nothing ever will be; fluorine is the most electronegative element that exists or ever will exist, if we restrict ourselves to ordinary atomic matter, and there aren't any plausible room-temperature substitutes for carbon chains in this role either so it wouldn't be surprising if the company tries to palm off inferior polyethylene substitutes as 'gore-tex' in preference to just declaring defeat, but it's not plausible that they're going to discover an equivalent or better non-perfluorocarbon alternative within the next decade or two this is science, not magic some things are just impossible
- _visgean 4y ago
  ok as a single layer this is the best we can do, but maybe we can combine different materials - different layers of fabris to make it work on a similar level?
  - kragen 4y ago
    or superhydrophobic metamaterials, or utility fog, or something, but it's not going to be plannable or soon
- eternityforest 4y ago
  There's always active materials. We already have heated jackets, why not dehumidified jackets? Then again, I don't do activities where failure of my clothes could kill me, so I'm not sure how the market would respond.
  - kragen 4y ago
    i have been working on that for a while but my intended use is enabling autonomic thermoregulation in humid weather by condensing sweat i hadn't thought of it as a useful adjunct to wrapping myself in essentially a garbage bag to stay dry in the rain

kragen 4y ago

no other class of materials is anywhere close to perfluorocarbons in many properties, such as low affinity for both water and hydrocarbons (and consequently fats), and ultraviolet resistance coupled with softness additionally such levels of resistance to biodegradation are rarely found in combination with either of the previous two qualities no other known organic compounds, out of the currently 182 million assigned cas numbers, are as thermally stable we are not talking about the kind of research and development that a company can carry out over a commercially viable timescale; we're talking about fundamental breakthroughs in material engineering perfluorocarbons were discovered almost a century ago, and nothing equaling or exceeding their properties in these ways has been discovered since moreover, there are fundamental reasons to suspect that nothing ever will be; fluorine is the most electronegative element that exists or ever will exist, if we restrict ourselves to ordinary atomic matter, and there aren't any plausible room-temperature substitutes for carbon chains in this role either so it wouldn't be surprising if the company tries to palm off inferior polyethylene substitutes as 'gore-tex' in preference to just declaring defeat, but it's not plausible that they're going to discover an equivalent or better non-perfluorocarbon alternative within the next decade or two this is science, not magic some things are just impossible

_visgean 4y ago
ok as a single layer this is the best we can do, but maybe we can combine different materials - different layers of fabris to make it work on a similar level?
- kragen 4y ago
  or superhydrophobic metamaterials, or utility fog, or something, but it's not going to be plannable or soon
eternityforest 4y ago
There's always active materials. We already have heated jackets, why not dehumidified jackets? Then again, I don't do activities where failure of my clothes could kill me, so I'm not sure how the market would respond.
- kragen 4y ago
  i have been working on that for a while but my intended use is enabling autonomic thermoregulation in humid weather by condensing sweat i hadn't thought of it as a useful adjunct to wrapping myself in essentially a garbage bag to stay dry in the rain