3 ms·

We can still build our own computers and software from scratch if necessary.

Jenda_ 4y ago
The problem is that you will need software/services that only run on the "trusted" platform. An early example of this are services that require "apps" that require Google Services on Android, detect rooting or even require remote attestation.
- drivers99 4y ago
  In that case we would need to use services (assuming they are actually needed) that respect freedom, or create them or find alternative ways to meet the same need.
  - runjake 4y ago
    Therein lies the whole point.
  - Jenda_ 4y ago
    It may be difficult, for example it may require starting a new bank, or outright impossible, when most people you need to communicate with (e.g. for business, or hobbies - but of course you can go living in the woods) are on some proprietary communication platform (think of WhatsApp/Facebook). Other times it may be "just" wildly inconvenient, e.g. when all taxi services, bikesharing and public transport in a given city will be available only through an "app". As another anecdote from real life, the 2022 AMS meeting (https://annual.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/2022/about-the-meeting/ams-102nd-annual-meeting-commitment-to-care-statement/ https://annual.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/2022/about-the-meeting/...) required "daily health survey" through a "CLEAR app" to attend.
  - TeMPOraL 4y ago
    > In that case we would need to use services (assuming they are actually needed) We're talking about things like banking. Yes, some of this already affects services that are needed in practical sense to function in modern society, and it'll affect more of them over time. > or create them [services that respect freedom] Impossible, because the market is highly competitive, so services respecting freedom have no chance to survive for long, which also means almost no one is willing to try making them - and more importantly - funding them. > or find alternative ways to meet the same need. Increasingly close to impossible in a practical sense. Observe how many things are increasingly becoming mobile-first or mobile-only. Banks, again, are a litmus test: there are plenty of new ones that don't have a web interface or physical presence, and the more traditional ones all strongly push users towards being dependent on the phone app (even if used only as an auth tool, it's still a hard dependency), which of course will happily use hardware and remote attestation to ensure you're not using a device that isn't a pristine, unmodded version of what the corporate world wants you to use.
- 0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
  I do not believe it is possible to watch high resolution content from Netflix on Linux.
  - Crespyl 4y ago
    Last I checked it was still possible to get up to 1080p through a FireFox addon; but you're right that anything higher (or officially supported) is locked to Windows.
  - raxxorraxor 4y ago
    Amazon has the same meassures. I should really cancel my substribtions just because of this crap...
selfhoster11 4y ago
Last time I checked, we couldn't even fab something approaching the complexity of a 4004 or 6502. Until we can do that, we are not truly independent as hobbyists.

The problem is that you will need software/services that only run on the "trusted" platform. An early example of this are services that require "apps" that require Google Services on Android, detect rooting or even require remote attestation.

drivers99 4y ago
In that case we would need to use services (assuming they are actually needed) that respect freedom, or create them or find alternative ways to meet the same need.
- runjake 4y ago
  Therein lies the whole point.
- Jenda_ 4y ago
  It may be difficult, for example it may require starting a new bank, or outright impossible, when most people you need to communicate with (e.g. for business, or hobbies - but of course you can go living in the woods) are on some proprietary communication platform (think of WhatsApp/Facebook). Other times it may be "just" wildly inconvenient, e.g. when all taxi services, bikesharing and public transport in a given city will be available only through an "app". As another anecdote from real life, the 2022 AMS meeting (https://annual.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/2022/about-the-meeting/ams-102nd-annual-meeting-commitment-to-care-statement/ https://annual.ametsoc.org/index.cfm/2022/about-the-meeting/...) required "daily health survey" through a "CLEAR app" to attend.
- TeMPOraL 4y ago
  > In that case we would need to use services (assuming they are actually needed) We're talking about things like banking. Yes, some of this already affects services that are needed in practical sense to function in modern society, and it'll affect more of them over time. > or create them [services that respect freedom] Impossible, because the market is highly competitive, so services respecting freedom have no chance to survive for long, which also means almost no one is willing to try making them - and more importantly - funding them. > or find alternative ways to meet the same need. Increasingly close to impossible in a practical sense. Observe how many things are increasingly becoming mobile-first or mobile-only. Banks, again, are a litmus test: there are plenty of new ones that don't have a web interface or physical presence, and the more traditional ones all strongly push users towards being dependent on the phone app (even if used only as an auth tool, it's still a hard dependency), which of course will happily use hardware and remote attestation to ensure you're not using a device that isn't a pristine, unmodded version of what the corporate world wants you to use.
0cf8612b2e1e 4y ago
I do not believe it is possible to watch high resolution content from Netflix on Linux.
- Crespyl 4y ago
  Last I checked it was still possible to get up to 1080p through a FireFox addon; but you're right that anything higher (or officially supported) is locked to Windows.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  Amazon has the same meassures. I should really cancel my substribtions just because of this crap...

selfhoster11 4y ago

Last time I checked, we couldn't even fab something approaching the complexity of a 4004 or 6502. Until we can do that, we are not truly independent as hobbyists.