4 ms·

This is the theory. In execution, we see the same sort of railroading here as there. US makes less fuss about expression, but is wholly as devoted to curtailing

This is the theory. In execution, we see the same sort of railroading here as there. US makes less fuss about expression, but is wholly as devoted to curtailing what could affect fortunes of plutocrats. Assange is far from an isolated instance, but it takes only one to prove the case. Assange is perhaps not the best choice, since he illustrates UK's failings more than US's, even if US is the one driving. We might take Manning as a local example, with their heavy use of isolation as torture. But we have very many more than one, though it is hard to keep more than a few in the public mind. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whistleblowers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_whistleblowers

ethanbond 4y ago
Chelsea Manning was court-martialed. Military personnel, very reasonably, have a different set of rights and duties than a normal citizen. We can have a conversation about certain punishments or mechanisms and whether they're humane, but an even more basic feature of our system than whether X case was correct or Y punishment is just, is the fact that we can and we do have lively, 24/7 conversations about this stuff. And they do actually change! Usually for the better! We've made immense progress on many of these issues over the last 200 years. An edge case in one system having some vague similarities to the base case in another system indicates that they are dramatically different, not similar. This distinction all seemed pretty academic to me too until I actually went to one of these theocratic countries - one way more liberal than Iran - and asked a local for their thoughts on [local authority figure]. The reaction was absolutely chilling. They didn't go into a rant about all the horrible abuses of power and how evil this leader is, how another country has it better, etc. They instead clammed up, looked around, and ended the conversation immediately. No, "convicted leaker of state secrets got treated poorly" does not in any way substantiate "we see the same sort of railroading."
- moloch-hai 4y ago
  Tolerating free expression is a measure of how secure they are. Years of torture by solitary confinement demonstrate something else.

ethanbond 4y ago

Chelsea Manning was court-martialed. Military personnel, very reasonably, have a different set of rights and duties than a normal citizen. We can have a conversation about certain punishments or mechanisms and whether they're humane, but an even more basic feature of our system than whether X case was correct or Y punishment is just, is the fact that we can and we do have lively, 24/7 conversations about this stuff. And they do actually change! Usually for the better! We've made immense progress on many of these issues over the last 200 years. An edge case in one system having some vague similarities to the base case in another system indicates that they are dramatically different, not similar. This distinction all seemed pretty academic to me too until I actually went to one of these theocratic countries - one way more liberal than Iran - and asked a local for their thoughts on [local authority figure]. The reaction was absolutely chilling. They didn't go into a rant about all the horrible abuses of power and how evil this leader is, how another country has it better, etc. They instead clammed up, looked around, and ended the conversation immediately. No, "convicted leaker of state secrets got treated poorly" does not in any way substantiate "we see the same sort of railroading."

moloch-hai 4y ago
Tolerating free expression is a measure of how secure they are. Years of torture by solitary confinement demonstrate something else.