4 ms·

There definitely was tension between imperial Roman identity and Hellenic identity after the sack of Constantinople in 1204, at least, so I think even here it’s

by thom 4y ago

There definitely was tension between imperial Roman identity and Hellenic identity after the sack of Constantinople in 1204, at least, so I think even here it’s not simple. But I’m not so much arguing about that, rather that an empire with constant succession crises, revolts and civil wars isn’t really gaining much from passing down the same titles and blood-spattered regalia each time. But as you rightly say, everyone’s limit is different.

inglor_cz 4y ago
Well, the imperium does not consist of titles and regalia only. It also means established trade routes and various institutions (schools, the navy, churches, possibly parliaments, legal codes, urban development standards) that make the world of an average citizen more predictable and living standards somewhat higher. From where I live, the disintegration of the Austro-Hungarian empire put a lot of economical and ethnic strain on the successor states, destabilizing the entire Central European region and making it an easy target for imperial intents of Germany and Soviet Russia. And even today, in Czechia of 2022, we have a lot of A-H legacies in our daily lives, like paying with "the crown" and using the same kilometre markings along our railway routes, beginning with 0 = Vienna. Empires tend to consist of much more than just the ruling class.
- thom 4y ago
  Let’s imagine I’d not used the word ‘durable’. What I’m interested in is whether there was anything in the Greek or Roman constitutions (or any since) that prevented cycles of tyranny, oligarchic excess, and popular uprising. However long the ostensible empires lasted, I see very little that worked. And despite my experience being young in the 90s where we’d perhaps convinced ourselves we’d reached some post-history period in parts of the West, it’s clear we still haven’t cracked the formula.

by thom 4y ago

inglor_cz 4y ago

Well, the imperium does not consist of titles and regalia only. It also means established trade routes and various institutions (schools, the navy, churches, possibly parliaments, legal codes, urban development standards) that make the world of an average citizen more predictable and living standards somewhat higher. From where I live, the disintegration of the Austro-Hungarian empire put a lot of economical and ethnic strain on the successor states, destabilizing the entire Central European region and making it an easy target for imperial intents of Germany and Soviet Russia. And even today, in Czechia of 2022, we have a lot of A-H legacies in our daily lives, like paying with "the crown" and using the same kilometre markings along our railway routes, beginning with 0 = Vienna. Empires tend to consist of much more than just the ruling class.

thom 4y ago
Let’s imagine I’d not used the word ‘durable’. What I’m interested in is whether there was anything in the Greek or Roman constitutions (or any since) that prevented cycles of tyranny, oligarchic excess, and popular uprising. However long the ostensible empires lasted, I see very little that worked. And despite my experience being young in the 90s where we’d perhaps convinced ourselves we’d reached some post-history period in parts of the West, it’s clear we still haven’t cracked the formula.