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Lots of dictatorships make concessions and continue to stick around: take Cuba with its market reforms of the 1990s and 2000s, ditto North Korea. But I don’t b

Lots of dictatorships make concessions and continue to stick around: take Cuba with its market reforms of the 1990s and 2000s, ditto North Korea. But I don’t believe this news either, but simply because I haven’t seen any reporting that independently verifies the claim being made.

pasabagi 4y ago
It's a different kind of concession, though. Elites like market reforms because they are positioned to get rich off them, so they can lead to a reinforcement of existing power structures.
nextaccountic 4y ago
Cuba actually has a democratic process, believe it or not.
- 4str0n0mer 4y ago
  Many dictatorships actually do. The question is more like "is it a process that only exists on paper?". If an election ends with a 98% approval of the supreme leader (or whatever the designation), then it's probably rigged and just for show...
  - nszceta 4y ago
    Pray tell
  - pmontra 4y ago
    To give an example Italy had an election with 98.5% for the fascist party in 1929. That was to confirm or reject the list of house members appointed by the party. I mean, there were no candidates to chose from, the ones in the list would be... elected?
- alehlopeh 4y ago
  So does Russia, believe it or not.
  - EGreg 4y ago
    Does Saudi Arabia?
    - DaiPlusPlus 4y ago
      Saudi Arabia doesn't pretend to be a democracy.
- arlcode 4y ago
  So do China, North Korea or Russia. Sometimes there are even multiple parties. Is there a chance that the people in power (at any level of government) get voted out?
  - booleandilemma 4y ago
    Ha, your comment got me thinking: is there a chance Democrats and Republicans will ever be voted out?
    - Waterluvian 4y ago
      The Whigs did so it’s possible! ;)
      - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
        thats 250 years ago damn it!
      - midoridensha 4y ago
        This shows exactly how party change comes in a 2-party system (enforced by Duverger's Law due to first-past-the-post voting). One of the two main parties implodes for some reason, so the other party gets all the power. But that can't be sustained because there's different factions within that party, so the big party breaks in half, and you're right back to a 2-party system.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      The party system in the US does feel rigged to entrench the two remaining parties in the US. My hope is dropping first past the pole and adding ranked choice will help break up the duopoly. Still, there are glimmers of hope now and again. Like Ross Pero running as independent or the Bull Moose party.
      - smcl 4y ago
        The GOP really suffered in recent Alaskan elections after they adopted Ranked Choice voting. So expect them to very loudly and strongly oppose it being adopted anywhere, with a lot of bad-faith arguments implying it's a form of electoral corruption/manipulation and holding it up as an example of Democrat trickery.
smcl 4y ago
BBC are reporting it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63850656 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63850656 Al Jazeera too: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-general-signals-morality-police-suspended https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-gen... RTE: https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1204/1339880-iran-morality-police/ https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1204/1339880-iran-moralit... and plenty more besides. I have no idea if it's a sincere declaration (like, maybe they'll still enforce these laws but using regular police instead of the morality police, for example) but "Iran claim to be suspending the morality police" is a statement that appears to be true.
- DaiPlusPlus 4y ago
  *Now*, I believe it (well, I believe the announcement has been made) - and I'm cautiously optimistic that the regieme will follow-through on their promise, somehow.
  - smcl 4y ago
    Ah sorry I hadn't realised that there was a narroow moment where it wasn't widely covered yet :) I upvoted, if that's any consolation
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
sos_humanity 4y ago
> Lots of dictatorships make concessions This is a strategic move by the Islamic Republic and they timed it carefully because there are calls for another round of protests just in a few days. The government hopes to mitigate public unrest by giving them false hope. I'm Iranian and have witnessed the government killing and imprisoning children (e.g., a 9 year old boy who was in a car with his father, not even protesting). There's a reason the UN is now investigating human right violations by the regime. To this regime, people are just statistics—just a couple years ago, the government massacred more than 1500 people on the streets and didn't blink an eye. In fact, right after that, they continued the JCPOA negotiations with the West. Many Iranians wish our country didn't have oil and gas so that other countries would leave us alone. The free and abundant resources of money only make the regime corruption worse. At least in a dictatorship that struggles with income, some attention would be paid to construction and manufacturing. But the (non)Iranian regime has just been stealing the nation's wealth for over 4 decades, essentially funneling it to Swiss banks. Maybe that's why the Switzerland refused to sanction the Islamic Republic just like Germany and Britain.
ianai 4y ago
The line I’ve heard (Stephen Kotkin) “dictatorships just have to be good at one thing: defeating all political alternatives.” Shuffling around the police isn’t allowing for a political alternative to the regime.

pasabagi 4y ago

It's a different kind of concession, though. Elites like market reforms because they are positioned to get rich off them, so they can lead to a reinforcement of existing power structures.

nextaccountic 4y ago

Cuba actually has a democratic process, believe it or not.

4str0n0mer 4y ago
Many dictatorships actually do. The question is more like "is it a process that only exists on paper?". If an election ends with a 98% approval of the supreme leader (or whatever the designation), then it's probably rigged and just for show...
- nszceta 4y ago
  Pray tell
- pmontra 4y ago
  To give an example Italy had an election with 98.5% for the fascist party in 1929. That was to confirm or reject the list of house members appointed by the party. I mean, there were no candidates to chose from, the ones in the list would be... elected?
alehlopeh 4y ago
So does Russia, believe it or not.
- EGreg 4y ago
  Does Saudi Arabia?
  - DaiPlusPlus 4y ago
    Saudi Arabia doesn't pretend to be a democracy.
arlcode 4y ago
So do China, North Korea or Russia. Sometimes there are even multiple parties. Is there a chance that the people in power (at any level of government) get voted out?
- booleandilemma 4y ago
  Ha, your comment got me thinking: is there a chance Democrats and Republicans will ever be voted out?
  - Waterluvian 4y ago
    The Whigs did so it’s possible! ;)
    - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
      thats 250 years ago damn it!
    - midoridensha 4y ago
      This shows exactly how party change comes in a 2-party system (enforced by Duverger's Law due to first-past-the-post voting). One of the two main parties implodes for some reason, so the other party gets all the power. But that can't be sustained because there's different factions within that party, so the big party breaks in half, and you're right back to a 2-party system.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    The party system in the US does feel rigged to entrench the two remaining parties in the US. My hope is dropping first past the pole and adding ranked choice will help break up the duopoly. Still, there are glimmers of hope now and again. Like Ross Pero running as independent or the Bull Moose party.
    - smcl 4y ago
      The GOP really suffered in recent Alaskan elections after they adopted Ranked Choice voting. So expect them to very loudly and strongly oppose it being adopted anywhere, with a lot of bad-faith arguments implying it's a form of electoral corruption/manipulation and holding it up as an example of Democrat trickery.

smcl 4y ago

BBC are reporting it: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63850656 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-63850656 Al Jazeera too: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-general-signals-morality-police-suspended https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/12/4/iran-prosecutor-gen... RTE: https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1204/1339880-iran-morality-police/ https://www.rte.ie/news/world/2022/1204/1339880-iran-moralit... and plenty more besides. I have no idea if it's a sincere declaration (like, maybe they'll still enforce these laws but using regular police instead of the morality police, for example) but "Iran claim to be suspending the morality police" is a statement that appears to be true.

DaiPlusPlus 4y ago
*Now*, I believe it (well, I believe the announcement has been made) - and I'm cautiously optimistic that the regieme will follow-through on their promise, somehow.
- smcl 4y ago
  Ah sorry I hadn't realised that there was a narroow moment where it wasn't widely covered yet :) I upvoted, if that's any consolation

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

sos_humanity 4y ago

> Lots of dictatorships make concessions This is a strategic move by the Islamic Republic and they timed it carefully because there are calls for another round of protests just in a few days. The government hopes to mitigate public unrest by giving them false hope. I'm Iranian and have witnessed the government killing and imprisoning children (e.g., a 9 year old boy who was in a car with his father, not even protesting). There's a reason the UN is now investigating human right violations by the regime. To this regime, people are just statistics—just a couple years ago, the government massacred more than 1500 people on the streets and didn't blink an eye. In fact, right after that, they continued the JCPOA negotiations with the West. Many Iranians wish our country didn't have oil and gas so that other countries would leave us alone. The free and abundant resources of money only make the regime corruption worse. At least in a dictatorship that struggles with income, some attention would be paid to construction and manufacturing. But the (non)Iranian regime has just been stealing the nation's wealth for over 4 decades, essentially funneling it to Swiss banks. Maybe that's why the Switzerland refused to sanction the Islamic Republic just like Germany and Britain.

ianai 4y ago

The line I’ve heard (Stephen Kotkin) “dictatorships just have to be good at one thing: defeating all political alternatives.” Shuffling around the police isn’t allowing for a political alternative to the regime.