4 ms·

Those problems are real but completely unrelated to AI so I don't get how they're relevant here. I don't understand the expectation that AI should solve a speci

by jstx1 4y ago

Those problems are real but completely unrelated to AI so I don't get how they're relevant here. I don't understand the expectation that AI should solve a specific set of complex economic and political problems, or that humans should solve those problems before they do anything with AI, neither of these ideas makes sense.

foxes 4y ago
The tech is ahead of social development.
- _theory_ 4y ago
  as usual
moritonal 4y ago
The argument was that so much energy has been put into solving problems that aren't actually hurting people. Our success in having the ability to generate sonnets in seconds will be seen in our future similar to the emperor commissioning golden statues whilst his people starved.
- TapWaterBandit 4y ago
  I think you radically underestimate how much AI will revolutionise our economy. Sure, sonnets are frivolous but there are countless applications that won't be.
  - Scarblac 4y ago
    And those applications will let more work be done by fewer people, show people more effective ads, and make the rich richer in myriad other ways.
    - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
      So you think the future is: 1. Fewer people working so fewer incomes 2. More ads to sell products to the fewer people who have incomes 3. A few people only getting rich (and buying all the stuff in the ads I guess?) This makes no coherent sense. Ads as a business model only make sense if there is a mass consumer market to sell stuff too. But if there are less people working and earning, ads by definition cannot be as effective. No, we are going to see bigger changes and more radical changes than poorly thought-out dystopia scifi plots.
      - spion 4y ago
        Could you offer an alternative vision?
        TapWaterBandit 4y ago
        I think there will be immense social dislocation as all white collar workers simultaneously get 100x more productive virtually overnight without a corresponding increase in work to do. At the same time more people will be able to build on their ideas than ever. A few things that seem obvious to me would be: - Private AI tutors that can go at a student's pace will revolutionise schooling (say goodbye to a teacher shortage anywhere) - Helpdesk work will vanish - Art will explode like nothing we've seen before. I'm already experimenting with writing stories in collaboration with AI and this is only the beginning. - Numerous improvements in a huge number of machines and data analysis in particular will likely get much better. - Due to widespread white collar work unemployment almost certain to be UBI's springing up all over the developed world. - Far more workers will end up back in physical jobs of various types. Environmental clean up, farm work, construction, etc. - Vastly more software will be built as the effective price of building will go way down. - Robots is another area I'm interested in seeing what happens. My understanding is that building robot hardware that is useful is much easier than the software. So if this allows for much more rapid software development we couod see an explosion on robotics too. I'm more certain of some of these than others but those are the ones off the top of my head. Out atm but you could also ask the Chatbot haha.
  - moritonal 4y ago
    I don't. I use AI every day at work and agree that it will revolutionise most industries. I do however stand by the fact that at the end of the day, companies like Google and OpenAI want to spend billions on AI, and less on other things. Thus my gold statue comment.
- acomjean 4y ago
  I see the point, an I think it’s a little overhyped. But protein folding with ai might be really helpful for the medical field. (Alpha fold). We also use it to score (rate basically) prospective crispr designs, which along with some other parameters So it might not be a net negative.
  - graphpapa 4y ago
    I think the big problems the OP alluded to are more about politics and cohesion than these neat science puzzles. Medical innovation does not inspire me when the medical system which administers these innovations remains so dysfunctional.
    - throwaway2037 4y ago
      What a cynical reply! Are you not impressed by the incredible medical breakthroughs in mRNA vaccines from BioNTech and Moderna in the last three years? And billions of vaccines have been distributed and injected at record pace in human history. Also, this phrase: <<medical system which administers these innovations remains so dysfunctional>> feel like someone writing from a US(-tainted) persepctive. Have you experienced well-functioning public health systems in other highly advanced countries? They are impressive.
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        How much of those advances are due to AI though?
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - graphpapa 4y ago
        I want better systems and I am cynical about pursuing other ends in this willfully politics-blind isolated manner, impressiveness of their achievements having a slightly tragic quality under that light. I am not from the US but I think the US is a great case study in the disconnect between technological progress and improved general conditions (in particular for but not exclusively relating to healthcare). I think cynicism is the correct response to this trend.
- dunefox 4y ago
  > The argument was that so much energy has been put into solving problems that aren't actually hurting people. That's not an argument, since the same thing can be said about anything else that does not solve world hunger, for example. Authors put energy into writing entertainment products while people starve.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    While true the volume of money and effort put into AI is considerable, and according to some an existential threat to life as we know it today. I'm not ready to panic just yet, though would appreciate putting some of that energy into more practical improvements.
    - maccard 4y ago
      > While true the volume of money and effort put into AI is considerable As opposed to the metaverse [0], marvel movies [1], video games [2], soccer [3], or NFL [4]? [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-lost-30-billion-on-metaverse-rivals-spent-far-less-2022-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-lost-30-billion-on-meta... [1] https://bgr.com/entertainment/marvel-spent-over-1-billion-on-avengers-infinity-war-and-endgame/ https://bgr.com/entertainment/marvel-spent-over-1-billion-on... [2] https://www.eurogamer.net/star-citizen-has-now-raised-more-than-half-a-billion-dollars-in-crowdfunding https://www.eurogamer.net/star-citizen-has-now-raised-more-t... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/henryflynn/2022/11/27/qatar-has-spent-well-over-200-billion-on-a-flawed-world-cup/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/henryflynn/2022/11/27/qatar-has... [4] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/05/buffalo-bills-new-stadium https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/...
      - paulryanrogers 4y ago
        Sure, I'd prefer some of the energy poured into those also went to more fundamental efforts to improve society.
- willcipriano 4y ago
  In my experience the people making that criticism tend to have done even less with their lives than the creators of whatever thing they are criticizing.
- nine_k 4y ago
  This is research. It helps discover things you might not have anticipated. Unlike engineering, you don't have a a project description and a known target market. AI research seems to have hit a lode that yields solutions to recognition and generation of texts and images. Good thing, but not something what could have been predicted, let alone planned, 20 years ago. One of the solutions for world hunger, synthetic fertilizers, have been discovered by the same chemical research that produced explosives and poisons.
spion 4y ago
Why do you think it doesn't make sense? In the worst case inventing AI before solving economic and political problems could potentially cause a massive societal collapse, hunger and/or poverty. I think it makes perfect sense to get our act together before creating something that can be so potentially devastating, to reduce the likelihood of bad outcomes.
- HotHotLava 4y ago
  You can apply the same logic to conclude that Mesopotamians shouldn't have invented the wheel while they still fought wars with their neighbours and had people living in reed houses.
  - spion 4y ago
    While it is true that the Mesopotamians faced many challenges at the time they invented the wheel, it is not an apt comparison to the development of advanced AI. The wheel was a simple technology that greatly improved the lives of the Mesopotamians, whereas AI has the potential to vastly surpass human intelligence and fundamentally alter society in ways that are difficult to predict. The development of AI requires careful consideration and planning, particularly in regards to potential negative outcomes. In contrast, the invention of the wheel was a relatively straightforward decision that did not carry the same level of risk.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

by jstx1 4y ago

foxes 4y ago

The tech is ahead of social development.

_theory_ 4y ago
as usual

moritonal 4y ago

The argument was that so much energy has been put into solving problems that aren't actually hurting people. Our success in having the ability to generate sonnets in seconds will be seen in our future similar to the emperor commissioning golden statues whilst his people starved.

TapWaterBandit 4y ago
I think you radically underestimate how much AI will revolutionise our economy. Sure, sonnets are frivolous but there are countless applications that won't be.
- Scarblac 4y ago
  And those applications will let more work be done by fewer people, show people more effective ads, and make the rich richer in myriad other ways.
  - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
    So you think the future is: 1. Fewer people working so fewer incomes 2. More ads to sell products to the fewer people who have incomes 3. A few people only getting rich (and buying all the stuff in the ads I guess?) This makes no coherent sense. Ads as a business model only make sense if there is a mass consumer market to sell stuff too. But if there are less people working and earning, ads by definition cannot be as effective. No, we are going to see bigger changes and more radical changes than poorly thought-out dystopia scifi plots.
    - spion 4y ago
      Could you offer an alternative vision?
      - TapWaterBandit 4y ago
        I think there will be immense social dislocation as all white collar workers simultaneously get 100x more productive virtually overnight without a corresponding increase in work to do. At the same time more people will be able to build on their ideas than ever. A few things that seem obvious to me would be: - Private AI tutors that can go at a student's pace will revolutionise schooling (say goodbye to a teacher shortage anywhere) - Helpdesk work will vanish - Art will explode like nothing we've seen before. I'm already experimenting with writing stories in collaboration with AI and this is only the beginning. - Numerous improvements in a huge number of machines and data analysis in particular will likely get much better. - Due to widespread white collar work unemployment almost certain to be UBI's springing up all over the developed world. - Far more workers will end up back in physical jobs of various types. Environmental clean up, farm work, construction, etc. - Vastly more software will be built as the effective price of building will go way down. - Robots is another area I'm interested in seeing what happens. My understanding is that building robot hardware that is useful is much easier than the software. So if this allows for much more rapid software development we couod see an explosion on robotics too. I'm more certain of some of these than others but those are the ones off the top of my head. Out atm but you could also ask the Chatbot haha.
- moritonal 4y ago
  I don't. I use AI every day at work and agree that it will revolutionise most industries. I do however stand by the fact that at the end of the day, companies like Google and OpenAI want to spend billions on AI, and less on other things. Thus my gold statue comment.
acomjean 4y ago
I see the point, an I think it’s a little overhyped. But protein folding with ai might be really helpful for the medical field. (Alpha fold). We also use it to score (rate basically) prospective crispr designs, which along with some other parameters So it might not be a net negative.
- graphpapa 4y ago
  I think the big problems the OP alluded to are more about politics and cohesion than these neat science puzzles. Medical innovation does not inspire me when the medical system which administers these innovations remains so dysfunctional.
  - throwaway2037 4y ago
    What a cynical reply! Are you not impressed by the incredible medical breakthroughs in mRNA vaccines from BioNTech and Moderna in the last three years? And billions of vaccines have been distributed and injected at record pace in human history. Also, this phrase: <<medical system which administers these innovations remains so dysfunctional>> feel like someone writing from a US(-tainted) persepctive. Have you experienced well-functioning public health systems in other highly advanced countries? They are impressive.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      How much of those advances are due to AI though?
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - graphpapa 4y ago
      I want better systems and I am cynical about pursuing other ends in this willfully politics-blind isolated manner, impressiveness of their achievements having a slightly tragic quality under that light. I am not from the US but I think the US is a great case study in the disconnect between technological progress and improved general conditions (in particular for but not exclusively relating to healthcare). I think cynicism is the correct response to this trend.
dunefox 4y ago
> The argument was that so much energy has been put into solving problems that aren't actually hurting people. That's not an argument, since the same thing can be said about anything else that does not solve world hunger, for example. Authors put energy into writing entertainment products while people starve.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  While true the volume of money and effort put into AI is considerable, and according to some an existential threat to life as we know it today. I'm not ready to panic just yet, though would appreciate putting some of that energy into more practical improvements.
  - maccard 4y ago
    > While true the volume of money and effort put into AI is considerable As opposed to the metaverse [0], marvel movies [1], video games [2], soccer [3], or NFL [4]? [0] https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-lost-30-billion-on-metaverse-rivals-spent-far-less-2022-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/meta-lost-30-billion-on-meta... [1] https://bgr.com/entertainment/marvel-spent-over-1-billion-on-avengers-infinity-war-and-endgame/ https://bgr.com/entertainment/marvel-spent-over-1-billion-on... [2] https://www.eurogamer.net/star-citizen-has-now-raised-more-than-half-a-billion-dollars-in-crowdfunding https://www.eurogamer.net/star-citizen-has-now-raised-more-t... [3] https://www.forbes.com/sites/henryflynn/2022/11/27/qatar-has-spent-well-over-200-billion-on-a-flawed-world-cup/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/henryflynn/2022/11/27/qatar-has... [4] https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/oct/05/buffalo-bills-new-stadium https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/sport/2022/...
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      Sure, I'd prefer some of the energy poured into those also went to more fundamental efforts to improve society.
willcipriano 4y ago
In my experience the people making that criticism tend to have done even less with their lives than the creators of whatever thing they are criticizing.
nine_k 4y ago
This is research. It helps discover things you might not have anticipated. Unlike engineering, you don't have a a project description and a known target market. AI research seems to have hit a lode that yields solutions to recognition and generation of texts and images. Good thing, but not something what could have been predicted, let alone planned, 20 years ago. One of the solutions for world hunger, synthetic fertilizers, have been discovered by the same chemical research that produced explosives and poisons.

spion 4y ago

Why do you think it doesn't make sense? In the worst case inventing AI before solving economic and political problems could potentially cause a massive societal collapse, hunger and/or poverty. I think it makes perfect sense to get our act together before creating something that can be so potentially devastating, to reduce the likelihood of bad outcomes.

HotHotLava 4y ago
You can apply the same logic to conclude that Mesopotamians shouldn't have invented the wheel while they still fought wars with their neighbours and had people living in reed houses.
- spion 4y ago
  While it is true that the Mesopotamians faced many challenges at the time they invented the wheel, it is not an apt comparison to the development of advanced AI. The wheel was a simple technology that greatly improved the lives of the Mesopotamians, whereas AI has the potential to vastly surpass human intelligence and fundamentally alter society in ways that are difficult to predict. The development of AI requires careful consideration and planning, particularly in regards to potential negative outcomes. In contrast, the invention of the wheel was a relatively straightforward decision that did not carry the same level of risk.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]