5 ms·

1. sounds about right. 2. I wrote c,c++ in the past life. I'm pretty good at vanilla js. And Elm, Elixir. So I get the taste of functional and those ML family

1. sounds about right. 2. I wrote c,c++ in the past life. I'm pretty good at vanilla js. And Elm, Elixir. So I get the taste of functional and those ML family static typed lang. But it's all meh .. maybe because I also know the lower levels stuff from assembly to flipflop and diode that logic gates are made of, and how electron flows (that's my uni background) Not really exciting.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
s3000 4y ago
Alan Perli: "LISP programmers know the value of everything and the cost of nothing." [1] You seem to know the cost of everything. Have you looked into "code is data" [2]? With the engineering or physics background, have you read about programming concepts like compiler, e.g. [3]? Programming languages are not only a tool to shift electrons around in a more convenient way. If you look the other way, languages are used to change the way you think. Have you tried creating an environment for you that suits you? ... that facilitates you to do whatever you want to do? That said, maybe you have to do a Steve Jobs and stop showering every morning or try things outside of tech. Take time off so that it is a choice to continue when you return. After all, AI will be done in 10-20 years. There was and there never will be a more interesting time than being involved in tech right now. [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57427557/clarify-perlis-dictum-lisp-programmers-know-the-value-of-everything-and-the-co https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57427557/clarify-perlis-... [2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5833033/in-lisp-code-is-data-what-benefit-does-that-provide https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5833033/in-lisp-code-is-... [3] https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/index.html https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/b...
tinco 4y ago
I assure you most Haskell programmers have taken the mandatory computer organization/architecture courses in uni. That knowledge wouldn't (shouldn't?) influence your excitement about programming paradigms. I think the bigger problem is the way you describe the usefulness of the work you do, how it's about satisfying your customers needs. If you could somehow put yourself before your customers, how would you do things differently? I sometimes code in Ruby, even though writing it in Python would be better for my business. I'm pretty fluent in Python, but Python is a shitty programming language and working in it for too long makes me sad. I don't think this discussion should be focusing on programming languages, just switching programming languages is probably not going to make you happy. If you think about a moment that made you happy in tech, even if it's long ago, what was it that you got enjoyment from? Maybe you could reproduce and amplify that. You seem to draw pride from knowing lower level stuff, did you know in the past 10 years hardware design went from something you need an expensive lab, loads of money and months of time for, to something you could do on the weekend using open source tools, order the PCB and you'll have it before the next weekend with the parts wave soldered on to it. Watch some Phil's Lab videos on Youtube and you'll have a working FPGA+DDR3 board in a couple of months and you can flow those electrons exactly like you want them to. Sometimes diving deep is fun, you could utterly solve some super niche market by being a lone wolf programmer that's hyper focused. Sometimes there's some big ChatGPT style opportunity that you could use to tackle some big issue with a synergetic team.
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  > Python is a shitty programming language and working in it for too long makes me sad Yea back in many years ago, my team was deciding what language to use for a monitoring system. I know c++, friend1 knows python, friend3 knows php. 2 hates Python, and we ended up with Perl! omg.. can't time travel back to stop the crime. Well off-topic, but I share that python story.
  - tinco 4y ago
    Haha that's cool. I guess I should qualify with "comparatively shitty".
valenterry 4y ago
> I wrote c,c++ in the past life. I'm pretty good at vanilla js. And Elm, Elixir. So I get the taste of functional and those ML family static typed lang. I don't think you do. Learn Haskell or Scala (doing only pure functional programming). The goal should be to express whatever problem you have at hand in the most natural and high-level way. That brings back good feelings when working because you are spending all or almost all of your brain-power to solve the business problem, without having to deal with low-level problems that no one except engineers understand. Elm is a great and productive language - but it is not nearly as expressive. Exixir is not a great language at all but it's still great because it runs on the BEAM. That makes it very effective for big production projects. But you are not looking for effectiveness. You are looking to get your joy back in what you are doing. You can also go the other way and don't solve high level problems but solve the most low level stuff - but from what you are saying, it doesn't look like that's what you want.
- Existenceblinks 4y ago
  Haskell and Scala don't fit my ways of adopting things. A way is akin to "the best bang for the bucks", so both provide too much, especially Scala. If I have to choose between a gazillion abstraction/features that can do many things, and a simple language that can do many things. Definitely go for the letter.
  - valenterry 4y ago
    If you don't like Haskell or Scala then pick another language. The point is not "best bang for the bucks". It's "what makes you happy".

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

s3000 4y ago

Alan Perli: "LISP programmers know the value of everything and the cost of nothing." [1] You seem to know the cost of everything. Have you looked into "code is data" [2]? With the engineering or physics background, have you read about programming concepts like compiler, e.g. [3]? Programming languages are not only a tool to shift electrons around in a more convenient way. If you look the other way, languages are used to change the way you think. Have you tried creating an environment for you that suits you? ... that facilitates you to do whatever you want to do? That said, maybe you have to do a Steve Jobs and stop showering every morning or try things outside of tech. Take time off so that it is a choice to continue when you return. After all, AI will be done in 10-20 years. There was and there never will be a more interesting time than being involved in tech right now. [1] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57427557/clarify-perlis-dictum-lisp-programmers-know-the-value-of-everything-and-the-co https://stackoverflow.com/questions/57427557/clarify-perlis-... [2] https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5833033/in-lisp-code-is-data-what-benefit-does-that-provide https://stackoverflow.com/questions/5833033/in-lisp-code-is-... [3] https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/books_pres_0/6515/sicp.zip/index.html https://mitp-content-server.mit.edu/books/content/sectbyfn/b...

tinco 4y ago

I assure you most Haskell programmers have taken the mandatory computer organization/architecture courses in uni. That knowledge wouldn't (shouldn't?) influence your excitement about programming paradigms. I think the bigger problem is the way you describe the usefulness of the work you do, how it's about satisfying your customers needs. If you could somehow put yourself before your customers, how would you do things differently? I sometimes code in Ruby, even though writing it in Python would be better for my business. I'm pretty fluent in Python, but Python is a shitty programming language and working in it for too long makes me sad. I don't think this discussion should be focusing on programming languages, just switching programming languages is probably not going to make you happy. If you think about a moment that made you happy in tech, even if it's long ago, what was it that you got enjoyment from? Maybe you could reproduce and amplify that. You seem to draw pride from knowing lower level stuff, did you know in the past 10 years hardware design went from something you need an expensive lab, loads of money and months of time for, to something you could do on the weekend using open source tools, order the PCB and you'll have it before the next weekend with the parts wave soldered on to it. Watch some Phil's Lab videos on Youtube and you'll have a working FPGA+DDR3 board in a couple of months and you can flow those electrons exactly like you want them to. Sometimes diving deep is fun, you could utterly solve some super niche market by being a lone wolf programmer that's hyper focused. Sometimes there's some big ChatGPT style opportunity that you could use to tackle some big issue with a synergetic team.

Existenceblinks 4y ago
> Python is a shitty programming language and working in it for too long makes me sad Yea back in many years ago, my team was deciding what language to use for a monitoring system. I know c++, friend1 knows python, friend3 knows php. 2 hates Python, and we ended up with Perl! omg.. can't time travel back to stop the crime. Well off-topic, but I share that python story.
- tinco 4y ago
  Haha that's cool. I guess I should qualify with "comparatively shitty".

valenterry 4y ago

> I wrote c,c++ in the past life. I'm pretty good at vanilla js. And Elm, Elixir. So I get the taste of functional and those ML family static typed lang. I don't think you do. Learn Haskell or Scala (doing only pure functional programming). The goal should be to express whatever problem you have at hand in the most natural and high-level way. That brings back good feelings when working because you are spending all or almost all of your brain-power to solve the business problem, without having to deal with low-level problems that no one except engineers understand. Elm is a great and productive language - but it is not nearly as expressive. Exixir is not a great language at all but it's still great because it runs on the BEAM. That makes it very effective for big production projects. But you are not looking for effectiveness. You are looking to get your joy back in what you are doing. You can also go the other way and don't solve high level problems but solve the most low level stuff - but from what you are saying, it doesn't look like that's what you want.

Existenceblinks 4y ago
Haskell and Scala don't fit my ways of adopting things. A way is akin to "the best bang for the bucks", so both provide too much, especially Scala. If I have to choose between a gazillion abstraction/features that can do many things, and a simple language that can do many things. Definitely go for the letter.
- valenterry 4y ago
  If you don't like Haskell or Scala then pick another language. The point is not "best bang for the bucks". It's "what makes you happy".