3 ms·

> It's sad to see that they removed it in an attempt to effectively dumb down the language even more to cater to those not willing to use their brains and learn

by notamy 4y ago

> It's sad to see that they removed it in an attempt to effectively dumb down the language even more to cater to those not willing to use their brains and learn a bit about its (IMHO interesting) history. As an alternative explanation, perhaps people don't want to be using Google to look up an obscure error message when they're in the middle of writing code, when the error message could be better and the history of the programming language is irrelevant to the problem at hand?

crdrost 4y ago
They often don't even know that's an option. Here's the deal. Haskell has “Functor” (mappable), “Monoid” (aggregate/summary), “Foldable” (summarizable), “Monad” (context/commandlike). This language comes from a lot of early adopters being math nerds of a sort. It is a barrier to entry, and everyone understands that. PHP’s situation is worse because, you know what's true about PHP developers? They are often just learning programming. It is an entry-level language, something you can throw into the HTML you already have to make some magic happen. Yes it can be so much more, but it ALSO is a lot of peoples' first look at programming. When you chose to learn Haskell you knew you were jumping in the deep end. The sitch with PHP is grown adults nearly drowning in a kiddie pool. Look, when Haskell condescends to me, “Your rigid skolem type variables are bound by the type signature for fizzBuzz!” I know as a seasoned programmer that I am experiencing my own masochism and that I should probably Google away and that I may end up having to read a PDF by Dr. Craig T. Skolem to find out why he has a species of type variables named after him. But if you are just starting out? It just makes you feel like you will never be able to do this and why did you even try. So keep T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in the error message, feel free, I don't care. But IF it is there, please include in your English error messages in some brackets, “(that’s Hebrew for ‘double colon’, it helps for searching errors online)” or something like that. If you find that line in the error message smug/condescending, then T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is all the more smug, because it has the same implications but hidden behind an extra smug superiority, “you don't know the history of this language, do you?!” Or, on the flip side, as long as the error message explains what went wrong and hints how to fix it, feel free to inject a mini Hebrew lesson into my day, sure.
- Y_Y 4y ago
  To be honest I don't know what the fuck your (parenthetical) terms were. You just have to learn those things under some name, and even if you know what a functor is in maths it won't tell you how to write Haskell. There's no magic word that will tell you exactly what something is, unless you already know the exact concept by a different name. You can try to make the names mnemonic, but they can't be a whole explanation.

by notamy 4y ago

crdrost 4y ago

They often don't even know that's an option. Here's the deal. Haskell has “Functor” (mappable), “Monoid” (aggregate/summary), “Foldable” (summarizable), “Monad” (context/commandlike). This language comes from a lot of early adopters being math nerds of a sort. It is a barrier to entry, and everyone understands that. PHP’s situation is worse because, you know what's true about PHP developers? They are often just learning programming. It is an entry-level language, something you can throw into the HTML you already have to make some magic happen. Yes it can be so much more, but it ALSO is a lot of peoples' first look at programming. When you chose to learn Haskell you knew you were jumping in the deep end. The sitch with PHP is grown adults nearly drowning in a kiddie pool. Look, when Haskell condescends to me, “Your rigid skolem type variables are bound by the type signature for fizzBuzz!” I know as a seasoned programmer that I am experiencing my own masochism and that I should probably Google away and that I may end up having to read a PDF by Dr. Craig T. Skolem to find out why he has a species of type variables named after him. But if you are just starting out? It just makes you feel like you will never be able to do this and why did you even try. So keep T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM in the error message, feel free, I don't care. But IF it is there, please include in your English error messages in some brackets, “(that’s Hebrew for ‘double colon’, it helps for searching errors online)” or something like that. If you find that line in the error message smug/condescending, then T_PAAMAYIM_NEKUDOTAYIM is all the more smug, because it has the same implications but hidden behind an extra smug superiority, “you don't know the history of this language, do you?!” Or, on the flip side, as long as the error message explains what went wrong and hints how to fix it, feel free to inject a mini Hebrew lesson into my day, sure.

Y_Y 4y ago
To be honest I don't know what the fuck your (parenthetical) terms were. You just have to learn those things under some name, and even if you know what a functor is in maths it won't tell you how to write Haskell. There's no magic word that will tell you exactly what something is, unless you already know the exact concept by a different name. You can try to make the names mnemonic, but they can't be a whole explanation.