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Europe basically needs to federalize and become a fiscal union like the US or India to stay powerful and get rid of these inefficiencies but are too divided by

by sfifs 4y ago

Europe basically needs to federalize and become a fiscal union like the US or India to stay powerful and get rid of these inefficiencies but are too divided by bad blood from about half a century ago and by vested interests of it's leadership class to do so. While many make the argument of diversity in cultures making union difficult, India has more diversity in culture and languages but has the advantage of almost half a century or so of concerted effort to unify the country pre and post independence - in contrast to the wars in Europe. So India is often able to plan and implement at a national level on some of these economic issues. The amount of development in the last quarter of a century has been nothing short of remarkable. Of course everyone else outside of Europe encourages divisions as a united nuclear armed Europe with over half a billion people in an advanced economy would become a powerful force and nobody has forgotten what colonization by Europe in Asia and Africa entailed. It remains to be seen if Europe residents will realise where there best interests lie.

bruce511 4y ago
I suspect language will be a key barrier in changing Europe from a Union to a single country. Language us a powerful factor in population dynamics (see Canada with English and French) and in Europe you'd be dealing with major language roots. English obviously, but also French, German, Spanish, Italian, Greek, Polish and so on. I don't see much cohesion with so many languages, and no current country to give up language primacy. Using language to create an us-versus-them situation is easy, and I don't see this happy union-of-equals easily subscribing to a federated state concept.
- 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
  It's not just language. There's also cultural differences, religious differebces, inter-cultural conflict, historical controversies and so on. There is a small spark of European identify slowly forming amongst younger generations, but it will take decades before anything like a federal union would even be feasable.
  - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
    Indeed, if you think Alabama and California are different, wait until you compare Italia and Norway. Not to mention the economic power difference is huge.
    - sfifs 4y ago
      Refer to Indian states. The languages across most states are actually mutually un-intelligible and cultures probably much more dramatically different than anything in Europe. In most of Europe, the majority culture have common elements of either Catholic or Protestant or Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
      - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
        True, but I don't look at India as a success. I really don't want Europe to look like India in any way, administratively, politically and logistically speaking. Not to mention the countless tensions you can feel accross the country when you travel there. It seems like a ticking social bomb when I go there, and we don't have the class system to shut up lower classes and women that keeps the uniquality stable.
      - 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
        The partition of colonial India was anything but a peaceful road to co-existence. The consequences included over a million dead, and tens of millions of people displaced. Last time I checked, India and Pakistan shelling each others' positions is still so commonplace that it's become a meme.
germandiago 4y ago
state nation model is over. Time for decentralized low-tax systems. Those mammoth states are only interesting for people with power ambitions, as this last war demonstrates.
- rahen 4y ago
  Absolutely. As states are collapsing under their own weight (particularly for large western countries like the US and France), the transition to a new model will be unavoidable. The next decades will be fascinating to observe in that regard.
  - germandiago 4y ago
    States are trying to put all kind of walls especially when CDBC come out to control population. Do not underestimate them. But many ppl noticed already that nowadays this is not the best way to organize and that they are just there to suck resources. But they will try with all kind of tricks to keep control, unfortunately.
- sfifs 4y ago
  It fact the reverse is true if you critically examine how power works. At a most fundamental level, the ability to maintain a state is a matter of (1) maintaining a monopoly on violence inside your jurisdiction so you can collect tax revenue in return for orderly administration (2) maintaining sufficient degree of both benefit and deterrence towards outsiders so they don't invade you. In the modern high technology world, both (1) and (2) require increasingly higher investments to sustain advantage which favours bigger states. Small states have to work very hard on carrots on (2) in particular to avoid being trampled. Tax friendly small jurisdictions largely survive at the whim & fancy of the elites of the bigger countries whose private interests they serve. Tourism focused small countries face the same pressures of serving the elites of bigger countries and in fact were trampled during covid lockdowns. Small countries that can't make (2) work stay poor. The Ukraine conflict effectively demonstrates the point. Previously, Ukraine failed at (1) in the provinces which had high ethnic Russian populations and (2) by giving up nuclear weapons and giving up Crimea without a war which enabled the invasion. Even though it turns out Russia seems to have badly miscalculated it's ability to win, the war has dragged so long in spite of causing major global economic disruptions because no one else feels able to intervene due to the high technology Nuclear ICBM threat.
baandam 4y ago

by sfifs 4y ago

bruce511 4y ago

I suspect language will be a key barrier in changing Europe from a Union to a single country. Language us a powerful factor in population dynamics (see Canada with English and French) and in Europe you'd be dealing with major language roots. English obviously, but also French, German, Spanish, Italian, Greek, Polish and so on. I don't see much cohesion with so many languages, and no current country to give up language primacy. Using language to create an us-versus-them situation is easy, and I don't see this happy union-of-equals easily subscribing to a federated state concept.

2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
It's not just language. There's also cultural differences, religious differebces, inter-cultural conflict, historical controversies and so on. There is a small spark of European identify slowly forming amongst younger generations, but it will take decades before anything like a federal union would even be feasable.
- BiteCode_dev 4y ago
  Indeed, if you think Alabama and California are different, wait until you compare Italia and Norway. Not to mention the economic power difference is huge.
  - sfifs 4y ago
    Refer to Indian states. The languages across most states are actually mutually un-intelligible and cultures probably much more dramatically different than anything in Europe. In most of Europe, the majority culture have common elements of either Catholic or Protestant or Eastern Orthodox Christianity.
    - BiteCode_dev 4y ago
      True, but I don't look at India as a success. I really don't want Europe to look like India in any way, administratively, politically and logistically speaking. Not to mention the countless tensions you can feel accross the country when you travel there. It seems like a ticking social bomb when I go there, and we don't have the class system to shut up lower classes and women that keeps the uniquality stable.
    - 2000UltraDeluxe 4y ago
      The partition of colonial India was anything but a peaceful road to co-existence. The consequences included over a million dead, and tens of millions of people displaced. Last time I checked, India and Pakistan shelling each others' positions is still so commonplace that it's become a meme.

germandiago 4y ago

state nation model is over. Time for decentralized low-tax systems. Those mammoth states are only interesting for people with power ambitions, as this last war demonstrates.

rahen 4y ago
Absolutely. As states are collapsing under their own weight (particularly for large western countries like the US and France), the transition to a new model will be unavoidable. The next decades will be fascinating to observe in that regard.
- germandiago 4y ago
  States are trying to put all kind of walls especially when CDBC come out to control population. Do not underestimate them. But many ppl noticed already that nowadays this is not the best way to organize and that they are just there to suck resources. But they will try with all kind of tricks to keep control, unfortunately.
sfifs 4y ago
It fact the reverse is true if you critically examine how power works. At a most fundamental level, the ability to maintain a state is a matter of (1) maintaining a monopoly on violence inside your jurisdiction so you can collect tax revenue in return for orderly administration (2) maintaining sufficient degree of both benefit and deterrence towards outsiders so they don't invade you. In the modern high technology world, both (1) and (2) require increasingly higher investments to sustain advantage which favours bigger states. Small states have to work very hard on carrots on (2) in particular to avoid being trampled. Tax friendly small jurisdictions largely survive at the whim & fancy of the elites of the bigger countries whose private interests they serve. Tourism focused small countries face the same pressures of serving the elites of bigger countries and in fact were trampled during covid lockdowns. Small countries that can't make (2) work stay poor. The Ukraine conflict effectively demonstrates the point. Previously, Ukraine failed at (1) in the provinces which had high ethnic Russian populations and (2) by giving up nuclear weapons and giving up Crimea without a war which enabled the invasion. Even though it turns out Russia seems to have badly miscalculated it's ability to win, the war has dragged so long in spite of causing major global economic disruptions because no one else feels able to intervene due to the high technology Nuclear ICBM threat.

baandam 4y ago