5 ms·

Democratic socialism seems to be working out pretty well in Scandinavia.

nec4b 4y ago
Not one country in Scandinavia has anything like democratic socialism as its social economic system.
pfdietz 4y ago
Let me be clear: I mean setting prices with market mechanisms, which all the "mixed economies" do. There's really no alternative to it for the economy as a whole (although government adjustments due to externalities, for example, are needed.)
- kilolima 4y ago
  How would you explain the recent gas cap for Russian oil as the hand of the market?
  - analognoise 4y ago
    The hand of the market is a myth - we make the market. It isn't a divine force - that's the Neoliberism God talking. In this case, we have decided to limit the value of oil a pariah state which attacked a neighbor can sell at. Pretty simple, imo.
    - pfdietz 4y ago
      Markets are essential. A modern industrial economy cannot function without markets to provide prices for the millions of different things being produced. This is why the Soviet Union failed and why China moved to allow a market to operate.
  - JumpCrisscross 4y ago
    > the recent gas cap for Russian oil as the hand of the market? As not market pricing? Markets work to find the most efficient economic solution, or at least local maxima. But everything isn’t economics. National security, for instance. So we take economic pain in exchange for national security outcomes. Domestic energy markets are different from international ones.
- atq2119 4y ago
  Right, but price setting via market mechanisms is orthogonal to capital ownership. I'm increasingly convinced that we should strive towards an impure market socialist system because control of large corporations that are more powerful than some countries really doesn't belong in private hands. And I say impure because some amount of private ownership to capture entrepreneurial spirits is a good idea. But Fortune 500 companies aren't about entrepreneurial spirits.
mongol 4y ago
It doesn't and it is not used here.

Not one country in Scandinavia has anything like democratic socialism as its social economic system.

Let me be clear: I mean setting prices with market mechanisms, which all the "mixed economies" do. There's really no alternative to it for the economy as a whole (although government adjustments due to externalities, for example, are needed.)

kilolima 4y ago
How would you explain the recent gas cap for Russian oil as the hand of the market?
- analognoise 4y ago
  The hand of the market is a myth - we make the market. It isn't a divine force - that's the Neoliberism God talking. In this case, we have decided to limit the value of oil a pariah state which attacked a neighbor can sell at. Pretty simple, imo.
  - pfdietz 4y ago
    Markets are essential. A modern industrial economy cannot function without markets to provide prices for the millions of different things being produced. This is why the Soviet Union failed and why China moved to allow a market to operate.
- JumpCrisscross 4y ago
  > the recent gas cap for Russian oil as the hand of the market? As not market pricing? Markets work to find the most efficient economic solution, or at least local maxima. But everything isn’t economics. National security, for instance. So we take economic pain in exchange for national security outcomes. Domestic energy markets are different from international ones.
atq2119 4y ago
Right, but price setting via market mechanisms is orthogonal to capital ownership. I'm increasingly convinced that we should strive towards an impure market socialist system because control of large corporations that are more powerful than some countries really doesn't belong in private hands. And I say impure because some amount of private ownership to capture entrepreneurial spirits is a good idea. But Fortune 500 companies aren't about entrepreneurial spirits.

mongol 4y ago

It doesn't and it is not used here.