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So a minority of cases with a pre-existing DX, that'll be happening with both child and parental consent. What's your point? The commenter was disingenuously i

So a minority of cases with a pre-existing DX, that'll be happening with both child and parental consent. What's your point? The commenter was disingenuously implying that surgeries were being performed on children without consent, which is absolutely not true. Additionally, a claim of numbers on an insurance system doesn't necessarily mean they've all happened -- and again, it misses the point entirely that even if a negligible amount of minors have tried to claim for surgery, it wouldn't be happening without consent, and wouldn't be happening without stringent psychological and empirical analysis and observation beforehand. It also doesn't say how many of those surgeries were corrective in the event of intersex children experiencing dysphoria, which is an entirely separate matter -- so the statistic is moot without further information.

jl6 4y ago
I'm just responding to you saying "NOBODY is performing trans-related surgeries on children". For whatever reasons, it does happen.
- 0ct4via 4y ago
  The discussion was about it being done without consent. Context matters. Going "for whatever reasons" is entirely dismissive and totally reductive -- the reasons are extremely relevant. Case in point, how do you know those weren't primarily intersex children having operations to correct operations forced upon them (without their consent) after birth? How do you know the 17 year old wasn't getting surgery shortly before their 18th birthday, having had therapy and hormone blockers for years prior? Reasons matter. Nitpicking then dismissing context and relevance is just pointless whataboutism.
  - jl6 4y ago
    The sentence of yours I replied to omits mention of consent, which conveniently makes your point sound much stronger than it is. Feel free to go back and edit it to clarify that children do occasionally receive trans-related surgeries, but only with consent. I can then edit my post to link to some stories from detransitioners which will cast doubt on whether their consent was informed.
    - 0ct4via 4y ago
      No, my original point is there, you picking and choosing what you respond to is on you, sweetie. Unlike @engineer_22 above, I don't edit or delete. His push was surgeries happening on kids without consent, including lacklustre attempts to paste law without context or comprehension, which fails to give him any credit. The fact that you resort to personal attacks and puerile "you edit then I'll edit" nonsense shows how disingenuous you're being. Detransitioners are in the extreme minority, and there are no known cases of detransitioners who had surgery as a minor, regardless of consent. Stop creating boogeymen to try and further your baseless argument.
      - jl6 4y ago
        > there are no known cases of detransitioners who had surgery as a minor, regardless of consent. Sadly that is also not true: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/community-family/we-are-just-guinea-pigs-women-describe-trauma-of-transitioning-as-teenagers https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/communi... Stepping back from this minutiae and back to the main article, your main issue is that you are pushing a position of far greater certainty and moral clarity than the facts warrant, and this is the general issue with trans activism. There is a huge middle-ground majority that would be so willing to support T as an adjunct to LGB - people you could rally so easily if you just dialled back from some of the more extreme demands. The dogmatic and polarized discourse that pushes out the sympathetic-but-insufficiently-compliant, smearing them as transphobes, is driving them into the arms of the right-wing genuine transphobes. This is also creating a chilling effect on research into gender dysphoria and its chemical and surgical treatments, all of which remain woefully understudied and poorly evidenced. Dysphoric individuals are of course the ones who are most harmed by this. As they say, do better.

jl6 4y ago

I'm just responding to you saying "NOBODY is performing trans-related surgeries on children". For whatever reasons, it does happen.

0ct4via 4y ago
The discussion was about it being done without consent. Context matters. Going "for whatever reasons" is entirely dismissive and totally reductive -- the reasons are extremely relevant. Case in point, how do you know those weren't primarily intersex children having operations to correct operations forced upon them (without their consent) after birth? How do you know the 17 year old wasn't getting surgery shortly before their 18th birthday, having had therapy and hormone blockers for years prior? Reasons matter. Nitpicking then dismissing context and relevance is just pointless whataboutism.
- jl6 4y ago
  The sentence of yours I replied to omits mention of consent, which conveniently makes your point sound much stronger than it is. Feel free to go back and edit it to clarify that children do occasionally receive trans-related surgeries, but only with consent. I can then edit my post to link to some stories from detransitioners which will cast doubt on whether their consent was informed.
  - 0ct4via 4y ago
    No, my original point is there, you picking and choosing what you respond to is on you, sweetie. Unlike @engineer_22 above, I don't edit or delete. His push was surgeries happening on kids without consent, including lacklustre attempts to paste law without context or comprehension, which fails to give him any credit. The fact that you resort to personal attacks and puerile "you edit then I'll edit" nonsense shows how disingenuous you're being. Detransitioners are in the extreme minority, and there are no known cases of detransitioners who had surgery as a minor, regardless of consent. Stop creating boogeymen to try and further your baseless argument.
    - jl6 4y ago
      > there are no known cases of detransitioners who had surgery as a minor, regardless of consent. Sadly that is also not true: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/community-family/we-are-just-guinea-pigs-women-describe-trauma-of-transitioning-as-teenagers https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/restoring-america/communi... Stepping back from this minutiae and back to the main article, your main issue is that you are pushing a position of far greater certainty and moral clarity than the facts warrant, and this is the general issue with trans activism. There is a huge middle-ground majority that would be so willing to support T as an adjunct to LGB - people you could rally so easily if you just dialled back from some of the more extreme demands. The dogmatic and polarized discourse that pushes out the sympathetic-but-insufficiently-compliant, smearing them as transphobes, is driving them into the arms of the right-wing genuine transphobes. This is also creating a chilling effect on research into gender dysphoria and its chemical and surgical treatments, all of which remain woefully understudied and poorly evidenced. Dysphoric individuals are of course the ones who are most harmed by this. As they say, do better.