5 ms·

I found Hayton's article a fascinating insight into someone who has gone through the whole process of transitioning, yet has much to critique about the modern a

by bbbbbp 4y ago

I found Hayton's article a fascinating insight into someone who has gone through the whole process of transitioning, yet has much to critique about the modern activism on this topic, from the perspective of having lived experience and deep understanding. Seems odd to write this off as "transphobic" given that Hayton is a transwoman. I think you just have a differing opinion, that's all.

0ct4via 4y ago
Not really, people of color can still spout racist views, being trans doesn't preclude the ability to be transphobic. Would you be so fascinated to read the insight of trans people who are capable of not conflating sex and gender? Hayton's whole schtick is appealing to the TERF crowd, and therefore escaping that particular line of transphobic abuse. You won't see her going into the men's room, though. Living as a woman while claiming she's a man is her choice, but it's the hateful TERFy rhetoric that's espoused by the anti-trans organisations she surrounds herself with. Whether it's internalised transphobia or not I cannot say, but she certainly has campaigned hard against improving trans rights. The fact that she's proud of associations with right-wing, transphobic outlets like GBN and RT only serve to show how disingenuous she can be... but hey, it gets her clicks and applauds within the anti-trans crowd, which she seems to relish in. It's not "odd" to describe something by the correct term, and claiming trans women are men is inherently transphobic, and unintelligently conflates sex with gender, when they are absolutely not the same thing. Maybe next time don't assume the thoughts or opinions of others.
- bbbbbp 4y ago
  Sorry but that's not a very convincing argument. Seems to me that you are painting Hayton as transphobic simply for having opinions on trans issues that you don't agree with, but that are more aligned with those of feminists. I think Hayton's article provides a view that carefully and thoughtfully balances the needs of both women and transwomen. It's a refreshing change from the type of activism that demands all sex-segregated spaces be torn down and that sex-based rights no longer matter.
  - 0ct4via 4y ago
    It's not my job to convince you of anything, random newcomer. Given intersectional feminism is much larger than TERFdom, you might want to consider it as "aligning with those of a minority of [so-called] feminists." Where are those "feminists" when it comes to trans men? Oh wait, just claim they're confused lesbians, and focus on labelling every trans woman as a predator -- because that's what feminism is about, reducing women to genitals. /s The fact that you say "both women and transwomen" shows your own disingenuousness and transphobia, both failing to recognise trans women as women, and failing to grasp the simple concept that "trans" is a descriptor, and "transwomen" isn't a thing. Who's "demanding all sex-segregated spaced be torn down" exactly? Nobody here, and certainly not I. Neither is anyone here claiming that "sex-based rights no longer matter," but good job with the straw man and whataboutism yet again. What's your interest in HN? You don't seem to be here with any interest in the regular topics, are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Don't you have Mumsnet and Woman's Place for that?
    - bbbbbp 4y ago
      > are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Your own account, which has public activity going back for less than a month, is almost entirely dedicated to soapboxing on trans issues. Rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
      - engineer_22 4y ago
        0ct4via 4y ago
        dang 4y ago
        I've replied to both of you elsewhere (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850484 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850509) but you both posted so destructively in this thread that more than one reply seems appropriate. Flamewar like this is completely against the rules and spirit of this site. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it again—regardless of how right you are or feel you are. Instead, please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN in the intended spirit from now on. If you can't do that or don't want to, please don't post until you can and do.

by bbbbbp 4y ago

0ct4via 4y ago

Not really, people of color can still spout racist views, being trans doesn't preclude the ability to be transphobic. Would you be so fascinated to read the insight of trans people who are capable of not conflating sex and gender? Hayton's whole schtick is appealing to the TERF crowd, and therefore escaping that particular line of transphobic abuse. You won't see her going into the men's room, though. Living as a woman while claiming she's a man is her choice, but it's the hateful TERFy rhetoric that's espoused by the anti-trans organisations she surrounds herself with. Whether it's internalised transphobia or not I cannot say, but she certainly has campaigned hard against improving trans rights. The fact that she's proud of associations with right-wing, transphobic outlets like GBN and RT only serve to show how disingenuous she can be... but hey, it gets her clicks and applauds within the anti-trans crowd, which she seems to relish in. It's not "odd" to describe something by the correct term, and claiming trans women are men is inherently transphobic, and unintelligently conflates sex with gender, when they are absolutely not the same thing. Maybe next time don't assume the thoughts or opinions of others.

bbbbbp 4y ago
Sorry but that's not a very convincing argument. Seems to me that you are painting Hayton as transphobic simply for having opinions on trans issues that you don't agree with, but that are more aligned with those of feminists. I think Hayton's article provides a view that carefully and thoughtfully balances the needs of both women and transwomen. It's a refreshing change from the type of activism that demands all sex-segregated spaces be torn down and that sex-based rights no longer matter.
- 0ct4via 4y ago
  It's not my job to convince you of anything, random newcomer. Given intersectional feminism is much larger than TERFdom, you might want to consider it as "aligning with those of a minority of [so-called] feminists." Where are those "feminists" when it comes to trans men? Oh wait, just claim they're confused lesbians, and focus on labelling every trans woman as a predator -- because that's what feminism is about, reducing women to genitals. /s The fact that you say "both women and transwomen" shows your own disingenuousness and transphobia, both failing to recognise trans women as women, and failing to grasp the simple concept that "trans" is a descriptor, and "transwomen" isn't a thing. Who's "demanding all sex-segregated spaced be torn down" exactly? Nobody here, and certainly not I. Neither is anyone here claiming that "sex-based rights no longer matter," but good job with the straw man and whataboutism yet again. What's your interest in HN? You don't seem to be here with any interest in the regular topics, are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Don't you have Mumsnet and Woman's Place for that?
  - bbbbbp 4y ago
    > are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Your own account, which has public activity going back for less than a month, is almost entirely dedicated to soapboxing on trans issues. Rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
    - engineer_22 4y ago
      - 0ct4via 4y ago
        dang 4y ago
        I've replied to both of you elsewhere (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850484 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850484 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850509 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33850509) but you both posted so destructively in this thread that more than one reply seems appropriate. Flamewar like this is completely against the rules and spirit of this site. We ban accounts that do this, so please don't do it again—regardless of how right you are or feel you are. Instead, please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and use HN in the intended spirit from now on. If you can't do that or don't want to, please don't post until you can and do.