3 ms·

Children do not consent to treatment. Children cannot consent. A child might say "yes, you can do the surgery", but that is not consent because a child cannot

Children do not consent to treatment. Children cannot consent. A child might say "yes, you can do the surgery", but that is not consent because a child cannot consent. Maybe this is extreme, but I think you need it to be more explicit before you understand: A child can say to an adult, "yes you can have sex with me", but that is not consent because a child cannot consent. Edit: I dont want to talk about intersex children. That's a red herring.

drewbug01 4y ago
> Edit: I dont want to talk about intersex children. That's a red herring. Why not, though? What makes that a red herring?
engineer_22 4y ago
drewbug01 Because intersex children are not the subject of the discussion. Please see parent comment for context.
0ct4via 4y ago
Intersex children isn't a "red herring" at all, they fall under the trans umbrella. They're given a binary gender identity at birth, based on genital configuration. If their genitals aren't "standard" innie-or-outie, they are often encouraged to pick an option, and have surgical intervention and potential followup care to raise the child in the parents' "chosen" binary gender, purely because of what's in their pants. Quelle surprise, this often becomes an issue when puberty comes around, and intersex kids find however they've been altered / raised to be, doesn't necessarily match up with themselves. It's VERY relevant. The fact that you don't want to talk about them -- or seemingly trans men or non-binary trans people, since you're only focussing on trans women -- shows you're not being reasonable or intelligent about this.
- engineer_22 4y ago
  Please don't say I'm not being intelligent. That hurts my feelings. :( Like all relationships, a discussion has boundaries. If the parties do not agree on the boundaries, the relationship cannot continue.
  - 0ct4via 4y ago
    Funny, the personal attacks and deleted comments seem to suggest you don't care about anyone else's feelings... and being demonstrably unintelligent is your choice. If you're hurt, you've been given more than enough material with which to educate yourself. Unsure which "boundaries" you're talking about when it's a public forum and you're still making personal attacks and jibes where you can... if you're going to be dishonest, at least don't be hypocritical at the same time.
DanBC 4y ago
We're using the word consent because we're having to use massive simplifications. Bit weird that you're insisting on a US-only framing of concepts of competence, capacity, and consent. > Edit: I dont want to talk about intersex children. That's a red herring. No, it really isn't. You're talking about children not being able to consent, and about rates of regret of transition, and about forcing children onto a medical and surgical pathway of transition. We see all of these in intersex people. You don't want to talk about intersex people because they disprove the points you're making and they highlight the fact that anti-trans campaigners are, simply, against the existence of trans people.

drewbug01 4y ago

> Edit: I dont want to talk about intersex children. That's a red herring. Why not, though? What makes that a red herring?

engineer_22 4y ago

drewbug01 Because intersex children are not the subject of the discussion. Please see parent comment for context.

0ct4via 4y ago

Intersex children isn't a "red herring" at all, they fall under the trans umbrella. They're given a binary gender identity at birth, based on genital configuration. If their genitals aren't "standard" innie-or-outie, they are often encouraged to pick an option, and have surgical intervention and potential followup care to raise the child in the parents' "chosen" binary gender, purely because of what's in their pants. Quelle surprise, this often becomes an issue when puberty comes around, and intersex kids find however they've been altered / raised to be, doesn't necessarily match up with themselves. It's VERY relevant. The fact that you don't want to talk about them -- or seemingly trans men or non-binary trans people, since you're only focussing on trans women -- shows you're not being reasonable or intelligent about this.

engineer_22 4y ago
Please don't say I'm not being intelligent. That hurts my feelings. :( Like all relationships, a discussion has boundaries. If the parties do not agree on the boundaries, the relationship cannot continue.
- 0ct4via 4y ago
  Funny, the personal attacks and deleted comments seem to suggest you don't care about anyone else's feelings... and being demonstrably unintelligent is your choice. If you're hurt, you've been given more than enough material with which to educate yourself. Unsure which "boundaries" you're talking about when it's a public forum and you're still making personal attacks and jibes where you can... if you're going to be dishonest, at least don't be hypocritical at the same time.

DanBC 4y ago

We're using the word consent because we're having to use massive simplifications. Bit weird that you're insisting on a US-only framing of concepts of competence, capacity, and consent. > Edit: I dont want to talk about intersex children. That's a red herring. No, it really isn't. You're talking about children not being able to consent, and about rates of regret of transition, and about forcing children onto a medical and surgical pathway of transition. We see all of these in intersex people. You don't want to talk about intersex people because they disprove the points you're making and they highlight the fact that anti-trans campaigners are, simply, against the existence of trans people.