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* trans-exclusionary feminists, you mean. Plenty feminists are intersectional, TERFs are in the minority (and before someone claims it's a slur, a cis woman fe

* trans-exclusionary feminists, you mean. Plenty feminists are intersectional, TERFs are in the minority (and before someone claims it's a slur, a cis woman feminist came up with the term, to refer to the trans-exclusionary minority). Trans is a descriptor, so "trans woman" is the appropriate usage, nor "transwoman" -- and those feminists aren't taking umbrage with non-binary trans people, or trans men -- only trans women... Hmm. That aside, the link you provided is disingenuous -- the author may be trans, but they conflate sex and gender, and have often been transphobic, as have the CCJS themselves. You don't seem to be engaging in good faith -- ignoring the "whataboutism" and ignorant terminology, you're also conflating sex with gender, and deciding that a minority justify excluding the vast majority. Are you next going to say that only women who can bleed and bear children are women? -- because plenty of cis women can't, and that's the kind of exclusionary rhetoric that's used next.

bbbbbp 4y ago
I found Hayton's article a fascinating insight into someone who has gone through the whole process of transitioning, yet has much to critique about the modern activism on this topic, from the perspective of having lived experience and deep understanding. Seems odd to write this off as "transphobic" given that Hayton is a transwoman. I think you just have a differing opinion, that's all.
- 0ct4via 4y ago
  Not really, people of color can still spout racist views, being trans doesn't preclude the ability to be transphobic. Would you be so fascinated to read the insight of trans people who are capable of not conflating sex and gender? Hayton's whole schtick is appealing to the TERF crowd, and therefore escaping that particular line of transphobic abuse. You won't see her going into the men's room, though. Living as a woman while claiming she's a man is her choice, but it's the hateful TERFy rhetoric that's espoused by the anti-trans organisations she surrounds herself with. Whether it's internalised transphobia or not I cannot say, but she certainly has campaigned hard against improving trans rights. The fact that she's proud of associations with right-wing, transphobic outlets like GBN and RT only serve to show how disingenuous she can be... but hey, it gets her clicks and applauds within the anti-trans crowd, which she seems to relish in. It's not "odd" to describe something by the correct term, and claiming trans women are men is inherently transphobic, and unintelligently conflates sex with gender, when they are absolutely not the same thing. Maybe next time don't assume the thoughts or opinions of others.
  - bbbbbp 4y ago
    Sorry but that's not a very convincing argument. Seems to me that you are painting Hayton as transphobic simply for having opinions on trans issues that you don't agree with, but that are more aligned with those of feminists. I think Hayton's article provides a view that carefully and thoughtfully balances the needs of both women and transwomen. It's a refreshing change from the type of activism that demands all sex-segregated spaces be torn down and that sex-based rights no longer matter.
    - 0ct4via 4y ago
      It's not my job to convince you of anything, random newcomer. Given intersectional feminism is much larger than TERFdom, you might want to consider it as "aligning with those of a minority of [so-called] feminists." Where are those "feminists" when it comes to trans men? Oh wait, just claim they're confused lesbians, and focus on labelling every trans woman as a predator -- because that's what feminism is about, reducing women to genitals. /s The fact that you say "both women and transwomen" shows your own disingenuousness and transphobia, both failing to recognise trans women as women, and failing to grasp the simple concept that "trans" is a descriptor, and "transwomen" isn't a thing. Who's "demanding all sex-segregated spaced be torn down" exactly? Nobody here, and certainly not I. Neither is anyone here claiming that "sex-based rights no longer matter," but good job with the straw man and whataboutism yet again. What's your interest in HN? You don't seem to be here with any interest in the regular topics, are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Don't you have Mumsnet and Woman's Place for that?
      - bbbbbp 4y ago
        > are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Your own account, which has public activity going back for less than a month, is almost entirely dedicated to soapboxing on trans issues. Rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
        engineer_22 4y ago

bbbbbp 4y ago

I found Hayton's article a fascinating insight into someone who has gone through the whole process of transitioning, yet has much to critique about the modern activism on this topic, from the perspective of having lived experience and deep understanding. Seems odd to write this off as "transphobic" given that Hayton is a transwoman. I think you just have a differing opinion, that's all.

0ct4via 4y ago
Not really, people of color can still spout racist views, being trans doesn't preclude the ability to be transphobic. Would you be so fascinated to read the insight of trans people who are capable of not conflating sex and gender? Hayton's whole schtick is appealing to the TERF crowd, and therefore escaping that particular line of transphobic abuse. You won't see her going into the men's room, though. Living as a woman while claiming she's a man is her choice, but it's the hateful TERFy rhetoric that's espoused by the anti-trans organisations she surrounds herself with. Whether it's internalised transphobia or not I cannot say, but she certainly has campaigned hard against improving trans rights. The fact that she's proud of associations with right-wing, transphobic outlets like GBN and RT only serve to show how disingenuous she can be... but hey, it gets her clicks and applauds within the anti-trans crowd, which she seems to relish in. It's not "odd" to describe something by the correct term, and claiming trans women are men is inherently transphobic, and unintelligently conflates sex with gender, when they are absolutely not the same thing. Maybe next time don't assume the thoughts or opinions of others.
- bbbbbp 4y ago
  Sorry but that's not a very convincing argument. Seems to me that you are painting Hayton as transphobic simply for having opinions on trans issues that you don't agree with, but that are more aligned with those of feminists. I think Hayton's article provides a view that carefully and thoughtfully balances the needs of both women and transwomen. It's a refreshing change from the type of activism that demands all sex-segregated spaces be torn down and that sex-based rights no longer matter.
  - 0ct4via 4y ago
    It's not my job to convince you of anything, random newcomer. Given intersectional feminism is much larger than TERFdom, you might want to consider it as "aligning with those of a minority of [so-called] feminists." Where are those "feminists" when it comes to trans men? Oh wait, just claim they're confused lesbians, and focus on labelling every trans woman as a predator -- because that's what feminism is about, reducing women to genitals. /s The fact that you say "both women and transwomen" shows your own disingenuousness and transphobia, both failing to recognise trans women as women, and failing to grasp the simple concept that "trans" is a descriptor, and "transwomen" isn't a thing. Who's "demanding all sex-segregated spaced be torn down" exactly? Nobody here, and certainly not I. Neither is anyone here claiming that "sex-based rights no longer matter," but good job with the straw man and whataboutism yet again. What's your interest in HN? You don't seem to be here with any interest in the regular topics, are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Don't you have Mumsnet and Woman's Place for that?
    - bbbbbp 4y ago
      > are you only here to espouse anti-trans views? Your own account, which has public activity going back for less than a month, is almost entirely dedicated to soapboxing on trans issues. Rather a case of the pot calling the kettle black, don't you think?
      - engineer_22 4y ago