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> The warrant request omitted a central part of the FBI’s plan: permanent confiscation of everything inside any box containing at least $5,000 in cash or goods,

by kodah 4y ago

> The warrant request omitted a central part of the FBI’s plan: permanent confiscation of everything inside any box containing at least $5,000 in cash or goods, a senior FBI agent recently testified. We really need to have a reset on law enforcement in this country. I don't think anyone's happy with the police anymore, federal or otherwise.

tptacek 4y ago
That's manifestly untrue. There's probably a way to write that sentence to make it much less trivial to refute, but it will make a claim much more specific than "nobody is happy with the police". As written right now, the opposite is closer (somewhat) to the truth.
- andrejguran 4y ago
  Unless you're a lawyer or a lexicographer, in a good faith conversation with someone smart, you rarely have to talk about the meanings of the words you're using. So if you have to, it's a sign that you're talking to someone stupid or intellectually dishonest. - Paul Graham https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1598272844106174466 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1598272844106174466
  - xtiansimon 4y ago
    Totally disagree with that statement here on HN. The word “conversation” is doing a lot of work. Hehe In face to face conversation with others, word choice is not critical because in conversation you can work out what someone means or intends over time. Written form is just not the same.
- hanafudafan 4y ago
  No, it's true. Same with domestic intelligence - they're all rotten. Ask anybody.
  - cyanydeez 4y ago
    Unless you identify anything with a political scope and then you're back to adversarial positions. It's mostly meaningless to cite popular support for anything that doesn't clarify how it'll be completed by Congress. People are willingly allowing broken policies as long as their perceived harm is greater on their perceived "enemies"
tstrimple 4y ago
- phpisthebest 4y ago
  >>We tried that. No, no we have not. any bipartisan moderate reforms are quickly loaded down with hyper partisan amendments from both the left and right killing any bill this happens to almost all legislation today
  - omginternets 4y ago
    You’re describing the failure mode, not the absence of effort.
- krapp 4y ago
  We haven't really tried that. We've made token attempts at it, mostly for the sake of optics, but actually trying it would require a revolution and civil war, because the complex of white supremacy, fascism and oligarchy which breeds the corruption of America's justice system needs to be utterly torn down and rebuilt from the ground up, around principles many Americans would find deeply uncomfortable, and American culture needs to be deprogrammed out of its fetishistic love of authoritarian violence and hatred of empathy and society, and that system and culture will violently resist all attempts at change at all levels, and by all means.
- Grim-444 4y ago
  This comment is pretty much the definition of a straw-man argument. You're presenting an extreme opinion as the opinion of hundreds of millions of human beings. Just adding to the hate in the world.
  - iudqnolq 4y ago
    Police routinely abuse the public [1]. Yet about half of America believes major changes to policing aren't needed, and about half of America believes we shouldn't reduce the budget of police departments and shift to social programs [2]. 1: https://twitter.com/search?q=cops%20common%20from%3Agreg_doucette https://twitter.com/search?q=cops%20common%20from%3Agreg_dou... 2: https://news.gallup.com/poll/393119/americans-remain-steadfast-policing-reform-needs-2022.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/393119/americans-remain-steadfa...
dontbenebby 4y ago
- freshpots 4y ago
  - dang 4y ago
    Please don't cross into personal attack and name-calling, regardless of how you feel about someone's post. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
    - freshpots 4y ago
      Thanks, every comment thread would/should have that posted about once for every five comments made. More people should read it including the person I was addressing who routinely pollutes this place. Perhaps you should share it with them.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jfrbfbreudh 4y ago
- dafelst 4y ago
  What does the agent having a foot tattoo have to do with anything? Seems like you're showing your prejudice here.
- Legogris 4y ago
  > modern day equivalent of a nuclear scientist So a nuclear scientist...?
RickJWagner 4y ago
There are lots of us who are happy with police. It's a hard job, and now it's politicized. Everybody's an armchair quarterback. It doesn't pay well. And bad guys sometimes try to ambush and kill you. Still not convinced? Talk to some family members of cops. I am confident you'll come away with a new point of view.
- dontbenebby 4y ago
  I very briefly dated someone whose brother was a police officer when I lived in DC, and prior to grad school I was encouraged to consider law enforcement by the very field office I’m complaining about a little over ten years prior to this thread. I find your comment condescending considering it’s in reply to an admittedly emotional rant stemming from the fact my local police failed so thoroughly in their mission it made an FBI agent’s eyes go wide and say they’d open a civil rights investigation. (Though maybe they were more focused on the fact I also very bluntly said “I’m not a Russian spy” and listed off the people making want to re-enact the scenes from the hit HBO television series “The Americans”.) Being a police officer is less risky than say, a construction work flagger, but people feel coerced into giving them unearned respect since a construction work flagger can’t misunderstand on purpose and shoot you dead if you don’t kiss their butt like they’re an aggrieved military officer in 1930s Germany they will lie through their teeth and not follow through on their claim that they will do their damn job. Please pick up a copy of “Rise and Fall in the Third Reich” and get back to me before replying again because I think you have no grasp of history.
- kodah 4y ago
  I was in the military and served in country. I get it's a dangerous job with arduous hours and on average pay that doesn't match the areas they serve. That doesn't mean the principles and guidelines that drive our policing forces don't need a rewrite from time to time. I'm less critical of individual cops, and less inclined to blast the profession, but what I said is the best way I can express disatisfaction without getting personal or rude, to be quite honest.
- aiisjustanif 4y ago
  I have 3 officers in my family, 1 of them being a parent. I’d have to disagree, but not strongly. So would they, they are a lot of fair criticism of how police are trained these days and a fair level dislike. My family members needed a degree, require extensive training comparably, and had more programs with the community. Even talking about the police as a collective from the perspective of the US is odd. So many departments are different, they are not fully one entity. The most important thing is that it is just that, a job.

by kodah 4y ago

tptacek 4y ago

That's manifestly untrue. There's probably a way to write that sentence to make it much less trivial to refute, but it will make a claim much more specific than "nobody is happy with the police". As written right now, the opposite is closer (somewhat) to the truth.

andrejguran 4y ago
Unless you're a lawyer or a lexicographer, in a good faith conversation with someone smart, you rarely have to talk about the meanings of the words you're using. So if you have to, it's a sign that you're talking to someone stupid or intellectually dishonest. - Paul Graham https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1598272844106174466 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1598272844106174466
- xtiansimon 4y ago
  Totally disagree with that statement here on HN. The word “conversation” is doing a lot of work. Hehe In face to face conversation with others, word choice is not critical because in conversation you can work out what someone means or intends over time. Written form is just not the same.
hanafudafan 4y ago
No, it's true. Same with domestic intelligence - they're all rotten. Ask anybody.
- cyanydeez 4y ago
  Unless you identify anything with a political scope and then you're back to adversarial positions. It's mostly meaningless to cite popular support for anything that doesn't clarify how it'll be completed by Congress. People are willingly allowing broken policies as long as their perceived harm is greater on their perceived "enemies"

tstrimple 4y ago

phpisthebest 4y ago
>>We tried that. No, no we have not. any bipartisan moderate reforms are quickly loaded down with hyper partisan amendments from both the left and right killing any bill this happens to almost all legislation today
- omginternets 4y ago
  You’re describing the failure mode, not the absence of effort.
krapp 4y ago
We haven't really tried that. We've made token attempts at it, mostly for the sake of optics, but actually trying it would require a revolution and civil war, because the complex of white supremacy, fascism and oligarchy which breeds the corruption of America's justice system needs to be utterly torn down and rebuilt from the ground up, around principles many Americans would find deeply uncomfortable, and American culture needs to be deprogrammed out of its fetishistic love of authoritarian violence and hatred of empathy and society, and that system and culture will violently resist all attempts at change at all levels, and by all means.
Grim-444 4y ago
This comment is pretty much the definition of a straw-man argument. You're presenting an extreme opinion as the opinion of hundreds of millions of human beings. Just adding to the hate in the world.
- iudqnolq 4y ago
  Police routinely abuse the public [1]. Yet about half of America believes major changes to policing aren't needed, and about half of America believes we shouldn't reduce the budget of police departments and shift to social programs [2]. 1: https://twitter.com/search?q=cops%20common%20from%3Agreg_doucette https://twitter.com/search?q=cops%20common%20from%3Agreg_dou... 2: https://news.gallup.com/poll/393119/americans-remain-steadfast-policing-reform-needs-2022.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/393119/americans-remain-steadfa...

dontbenebby 4y ago

freshpots 4y ago
- dang 4y ago
  Please don't cross into personal attack and name-calling, regardless of how you feel about someone's post. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
  - freshpots 4y ago
    Thanks, every comment thread would/should have that posted about once for every five comments made. More people should read it including the person I was addressing who routinely pollutes this place. Perhaps you should share it with them.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jfrbfbreudh 4y ago
dafelst 4y ago
What does the agent having a foot tattoo have to do with anything? Seems like you're showing your prejudice here.
Legogris 4y ago
> modern day equivalent of a nuclear scientist So a nuclear scientist...?

RickJWagner 4y ago

There are lots of us who are happy with police. It's a hard job, and now it's politicized. Everybody's an armchair quarterback. It doesn't pay well. And bad guys sometimes try to ambush and kill you. Still not convinced? Talk to some family members of cops. I am confident you'll come away with a new point of view.

dontbenebby 4y ago
I very briefly dated someone whose brother was a police officer when I lived in DC, and prior to grad school I was encouraged to consider law enforcement by the very field office I’m complaining about a little over ten years prior to this thread. I find your comment condescending considering it’s in reply to an admittedly emotional rant stemming from the fact my local police failed so thoroughly in their mission it made an FBI agent’s eyes go wide and say they’d open a civil rights investigation. (Though maybe they were more focused on the fact I also very bluntly said “I’m not a Russian spy” and listed off the people making want to re-enact the scenes from the hit HBO television series “The Americans”.) Being a police officer is less risky than say, a construction work flagger, but people feel coerced into giving them unearned respect since a construction work flagger can’t misunderstand on purpose and shoot you dead if you don’t kiss their butt like they’re an aggrieved military officer in 1930s Germany they will lie through their teeth and not follow through on their claim that they will do their damn job. Please pick up a copy of “Rise and Fall in the Third Reich” and get back to me before replying again because I think you have no grasp of history.
kodah 4y ago
I was in the military and served in country. I get it's a dangerous job with arduous hours and on average pay that doesn't match the areas they serve. That doesn't mean the principles and guidelines that drive our policing forces don't need a rewrite from time to time. I'm less critical of individual cops, and less inclined to blast the profession, but what I said is the best way I can express disatisfaction without getting personal or rude, to be quite honest.
aiisjustanif 4y ago
I have 3 officers in my family, 1 of them being a parent. I’d have to disagree, but not strongly. So would they, they are a lot of fair criticism of how police are trained these days and a fair level dislike. My family members needed a degree, require extensive training comparably, and had more programs with the community. Even talking about the police as a collective from the perspective of the US is odd. So many departments are different, they are not fully one entity. The most important thing is that it is just that, a job.