4 ms·

The VP of my company is like this. When I started he was an operations director. He amazes me. He’s an older guy that physically seems half his age. The only in

by CSSer 4y ago

The VP of my company is like this. When I started he was an operations director. He amazes me. He’s an older guy that physically seems half his age. The only indicator to the contrary are some fine lines and his completely gray-white hair. He’s somehow incredibly even-tempered with a dry wit. I’ve worked with him for four years, and I’ve seen him make an upset face exactly once. What’s even crazier is that I’ve had scenarios where I needed something and my supervisors made it seem like it would take eons to get it because they don’t understand it. They’d want me to write a report or something to that effect. Same five minute conversation revisited with him in the room? He listens, asks a few questions (mostly about how it’ll impact our budget), and then says something like, “Okay, sounds like we need this,” and boom! Done. He’s not a programmer. He has no technical experience or background. He just seems to have a fine-tuned compass for what is and isn’t a big deal. I’ve never had the feeling that he didn’t trust me about something that I 100% feel is what needs to be done. Yet he’s still taught me things I didn’t know. It’s weird.

maximinus_thrax 4y ago
There's nothing mediocre about the person you're describing.
- pharke 4y ago
  Yes, this person is an expert manager.
  - spaceman_2020 4y ago
    Even being able to have such a firm grasp on your emotions is hardly the stuff of mediocrity.
- CSSer 4y ago
  Obviously I agree. I suppose I got here because this industry often seems laser-focused on CTOs, 10x engineers, and individuals with a generally accepted as outstanding level of knowledge in some niche field or specialization. This guy has none of that, hence “mediocre” but I agree he’s anything but.
AlbertCory 4y ago
Excellent and hardly mediocre. "Common sense" is anything but common. But I have found in interviewing veterans that a no-panic approach to problems is a very powerful force in business. Some of them say that a military leader who deals with actual life-and-death situations can have a nicely blasé attitude about civilian problems.
- js8 4y ago
  I think the GP's point is that there is something mediocre about common sense. I think it's similar to the most beautiful faces being also (very close to) the most average ones. "Mediocre" is not a good word for this concept, it implies a scale. Maybe Turing test for intelligence is "wrong" exactly for that reason. It's like a test of beauty based on human faces. Maybe we need to accept that just like there are two different standards of beauty (i.e. face one, in which humans will always excel by being average humans, and the other, beauty in its own right, way e.g. fractals or Bach's music are beautiful), there are also two standards of intelligence, which are named in the article as "mediocre" and "excellent". Maybe it would be better to call them "human-like" and "brilliant".
rqtwteye 4y ago
"What’s even crazier is that I’ve had scenarios where I needed something and my supervisors made it seem like it would take eons to get it because they don’t understand it. They’d want me to write a report or something to that effect. Same five minute conversation revisited with him in the room? He listens, asks a few questions (mostly about how it’ll impact our budget), and then says something like, “Okay, sounds like we need this,” and boom! Done" I have had this many times. You struggle forever convincing middle managers to get something. Then you have a quick talk with a VOP/C*O and they say "Of course. Do it. ".
- majormajor 4y ago
  Bad middle managers seem to be driven above everything else by a fear of rejection from the VP/C-Suite. They are reluctant to use the additional power of their role because they're more afraid of it backfiring or failing than they are of being mediocre. You have a proposal and data and confidence and you put that in front of the VP? It makes sense to the VP, it's convincing, done. You ask a bad middle manager to sign off on it themselves or put it in front of the VP themselves? Even if it makes sense to them they're gonna tie themselves in knots about how it might not be seen as a good idea to the VP, and why risk that on your behalf?
  - AlbertCory 4y ago
    Very true. It's the same with lawyers: they're mortally afraid of some higher-up lawyer casting doubt on their approval of something, so they automatically say "out of an abundance of caution" and disapprove it. However much we trash Google now, I lay out in https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/culture-at-google-part-one-the-movies https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/culture-at-google-part-o... how ten managers in a row approved my budget for the movies, on the grounds that "this is good for the whole company." Then at the very end, one succumbed to Middle Manager Syndrome. I went over his head.

by CSSer 4y ago

maximinus_thrax 4y ago

There's nothing mediocre about the person you're describing.

pharke 4y ago
Yes, this person is an expert manager.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  Even being able to have such a firm grasp on your emotions is hardly the stuff of mediocrity.
CSSer 4y ago
Obviously I agree. I suppose I got here because this industry often seems laser-focused on CTOs, 10x engineers, and individuals with a generally accepted as outstanding level of knowledge in some niche field or specialization. This guy has none of that, hence “mediocre” but I agree he’s anything but.

AlbertCory 4y ago

Excellent and hardly mediocre. "Common sense" is anything but common. But I have found in interviewing veterans that a no-panic approach to problems is a very powerful force in business. Some of them say that a military leader who deals with actual life-and-death situations can have a nicely blasé attitude about civilian problems.

js8 4y ago
I think the GP's point is that there is something mediocre about common sense. I think it's similar to the most beautiful faces being also (very close to) the most average ones. "Mediocre" is not a good word for this concept, it implies a scale. Maybe Turing test for intelligence is "wrong" exactly for that reason. It's like a test of beauty based on human faces. Maybe we need to accept that just like there are two different standards of beauty (i.e. face one, in which humans will always excel by being average humans, and the other, beauty in its own right, way e.g. fractals or Bach's music are beautiful), there are also two standards of intelligence, which are named in the article as "mediocre" and "excellent". Maybe it would be better to call them "human-like" and "brilliant".

rqtwteye 4y ago

"What’s even crazier is that I’ve had scenarios where I needed something and my supervisors made it seem like it would take eons to get it because they don’t understand it. They’d want me to write a report or something to that effect. Same five minute conversation revisited with him in the room? He listens, asks a few questions (mostly about how it’ll impact our budget), and then says something like, “Okay, sounds like we need this,” and boom! Done" I have had this many times. You struggle forever convincing middle managers to get something. Then you have a quick talk with a VOP/C*O and they say "Of course. Do it. ".

majormajor 4y ago
Bad middle managers seem to be driven above everything else by a fear of rejection from the VP/C-Suite. They are reluctant to use the additional power of their role because they're more afraid of it backfiring or failing than they are of being mediocre. You have a proposal and data and confidence and you put that in front of the VP? It makes sense to the VP, it's convincing, done. You ask a bad middle manager to sign off on it themselves or put it in front of the VP themselves? Even if it makes sense to them they're gonna tie themselves in knots about how it might not be seen as a good idea to the VP, and why risk that on your behalf?
- AlbertCory 4y ago
  Very true. It's the same with lawyers: they're mortally afraid of some higher-up lawyer casting doubt on their approval of something, so they automatically say "out of an abundance of caution" and disapprove it. However much we trash Google now, I lay out in https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/culture-at-google-part-one-the-movies https://albertcory50.substack.com/p/culture-at-google-part-o... how ten managers in a row approved my budget for the movies, on the grounds that "this is good for the whole company." Then at the very end, one succumbed to Middle Manager Syndrome. I went over his head.