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I don't understand the advice of switching off appliances and lights at night. Surely if France has an energy production shortfall, it must be at peak period wh

by cm2187 4y ago

I don't understand the advice of switching off appliances and lights at night. Surely if France has an energy production shortfall, it must be at peak period which is during the day from 9am until about 7pm [1], not in the middle of the night. Particularly given the vast majority of its production costs the same whether you use it or not (nuclear, wind). And even for gas, the problem isn't the quantity of gas available, it is the output of the gas power plants available. So saving gas during the night doesn't help peak production. [1] https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-production-delectricite-par-filiere https://www.rte-france.com/eco2mix/la-production-delectricit...

hinata08 4y ago
On top of the peak production issue, there is also a fuel reserve issue As half of the the nuclear power plants are down, they have to rely on gas. And gas has become difficult to import. France feels both the liberalisation of the electricity production : Private operators promised to produce cheaper and cleaner power back in the 2000s. But they didn't. Virtually all of them used a scheme (the Arenh system) to get public electricity in bulk, sold to them at a loss and at a fixed price, so that they could compete with the public company on retail prices. Then the government was still in their privatization bubble, lobbies told them everything was fine, and they began to stop to maintain and to phase out public nuclear power plants. And now we no longer have electricity. The backup would be electricity made with natural gas. But you need to save that natural gas now. Russia froze the export of natural gas. And other companies know that gas is in short supply, so prices skyrocket. So yeah, we have to turn everything off at night.
- cm2187 4y ago
  I am sure France isn't contemplating blackouts to save on the gas supply.
  - hinata08 4y ago
    No i'm just saying there are 2 issues nowadays : peak production issue and how to keep producing electricity in the next year, as gas is difficult to source, and the tank might eventually run out. The government is just making a single campaign to simplify the PR ! In the same ads, they ask citizens to both reduce energy consumption (eg lower heating to 18°C), and to delay intensive usage out of peak hours (eg use you washing machine or the space heater during the day and not in the evening)
- Normille 4y ago
  - hinata08 4y ago
    Whatever, there is no Russian gas anymore I disagree with your russian narrative (payments for gas would have been processed despite the swift ban). But the objective part of this story is that EU has no gas anymore. And debates about Russia won't fuel power plants
  - gattilorenz 4y ago
    > France [and the rest of the EU] announced they were going to stop buying Russian oil and gas, blocked Russia's access to the world banking system so Russia couldn't receive payment for their gas in $$$ or €€€, then refused to pay for it in Roubles instead. As far as I remember, it was still possible (in terms of banking systems/santions) to pay the gas in Euros as usual; Russia decided, unilaterally, that they would require the payment to be in Rubles (to try and limit its plummeting value). For ther rest, you're correct.
    - alwayseasy 4y ago
      Your recollection is correct. He is falling for the same thing he accused op of.
    - f6v 4y ago
      Why would Russia want to be payed in EUR when their foreign assets were frozen? Russia relied on foreign financial infrastructure which has proven to be unreliable for them.
      - analognoise 4y ago
        It's a funny twist of logic to say the Russians found the foreign financial infrastructure to be unreliable for them... When they were booted out for attacking a neighboring country, isn't it? It's so unreliable! All they have to avoid is invading their neighbors, but they couldn't manage that. Russia is the unreliable party.
Loic 4y ago
In France, a lot of heating is done during the night (Water, buildings with so cold "accumulator electrical heating"). You also need to think that France is not alone. If they can save during the night, this is extra power which can be exported to Germany where the base production relies on coal and gas. This way, Germany uses less gas during the night and can export more during the day to help France. We are fully interconnected, we need to look beyond "just our country".
- cm2187 4y ago
  But that assumes the blackouts are the result of gas power plants not running at full capacity at peak period because of a lack of gas. I don't believe that is the case, at least not this winter.
  - hinata08 4y ago
    they run at full capacity, but the capacity of natural gas power plant is very limited Nuclear power plants used to make up for the steady base consumption. Natural gas power plants used to be the last ones to be solicited. They were just used to adjust to the marginal needs, not to produce most of the power.

by cm2187 4y ago

hinata08 4y ago

On top of the peak production issue, there is also a fuel reserve issue As half of the the nuclear power plants are down, they have to rely on gas. And gas has become difficult to import. France feels both the liberalisation of the electricity production : Private operators promised to produce cheaper and cleaner power back in the 2000s. But they didn't. Virtually all of them used a scheme (the Arenh system) to get public electricity in bulk, sold to them at a loss and at a fixed price, so that they could compete with the public company on retail prices. Then the government was still in their privatization bubble, lobbies told them everything was fine, and they began to stop to maintain and to phase out public nuclear power plants. And now we no longer have electricity. The backup would be electricity made with natural gas. But you need to save that natural gas now. Russia froze the export of natural gas. And other companies know that gas is in short supply, so prices skyrocket. So yeah, we have to turn everything off at night.

cm2187 4y ago
I am sure France isn't contemplating blackouts to save on the gas supply.
- hinata08 4y ago
  No i'm just saying there are 2 issues nowadays : peak production issue and how to keep producing electricity in the next year, as gas is difficult to source, and the tank might eventually run out. The government is just making a single campaign to simplify the PR ! In the same ads, they ask citizens to both reduce energy consumption (eg lower heating to 18°C), and to delay intensive usage out of peak hours (eg use you washing machine or the space heater during the day and not in the evening)
Normille 4y ago
- hinata08 4y ago
  Whatever, there is no Russian gas anymore I disagree with your russian narrative (payments for gas would have been processed despite the swift ban). But the objective part of this story is that EU has no gas anymore. And debates about Russia won't fuel power plants
- gattilorenz 4y ago
  > France [and the rest of the EU] announced they were going to stop buying Russian oil and gas, blocked Russia's access to the world banking system so Russia couldn't receive payment for their gas in $$$ or €€€, then refused to pay for it in Roubles instead. As far as I remember, it was still possible (in terms of banking systems/santions) to pay the gas in Euros as usual; Russia decided, unilaterally, that they would require the payment to be in Rubles (to try and limit its plummeting value). For ther rest, you're correct.
  - alwayseasy 4y ago
    Your recollection is correct. He is falling for the same thing he accused op of.
  - f6v 4y ago
    Why would Russia want to be payed in EUR when their foreign assets were frozen? Russia relied on foreign financial infrastructure which has proven to be unreliable for them.
    - analognoise 4y ago
      It's a funny twist of logic to say the Russians found the foreign financial infrastructure to be unreliable for them... When they were booted out for attacking a neighboring country, isn't it? It's so unreliable! All they have to avoid is invading their neighbors, but they couldn't manage that. Russia is the unreliable party.

Loic 4y ago

In France, a lot of heating is done during the night (Water, buildings with so cold "accumulator electrical heating"). You also need to think that France is not alone. If they can save during the night, this is extra power which can be exported to Germany where the base production relies on coal and gas. This way, Germany uses less gas during the night and can export more during the day to help France. We are fully interconnected, we need to look beyond "just our country".

cm2187 4y ago
But that assumes the blackouts are the result of gas power plants not running at full capacity at peak period because of a lack of gas. I don't believe that is the case, at least not this winter.
- hinata08 4y ago
  they run at full capacity, but the capacity of natural gas power plant is very limited Nuclear power plants used to make up for the steady base consumption. Natural gas power plants used to be the last ones to be solicited. They were just used to adjust to the marginal needs, not to produce most of the power.