5 ms·

Rage Against the (Smart) Machine – Why I want my TV to be ‘dumb.’

54 points by everybodyknows 4y ago

LinuxBender 4y ago
Non-JS accessible version [1] [1] - https://archive.ph/Fh4Qc https://archive.ph/Fh4Qc
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
cityzen 4y ago
Rage against shitty websites… I can’t even see the article with all the pop ups, jittering on scroll, etc. I’m sure it’s deep, maybe post it on a “dumb” website so we can read it.
- ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
  The solution to the author's problem is to pay more for a better device. The solution to your problem is to pay the author so the ads aren't needed.
  - tsuujin 4y ago
    Cable TV would like a word.
ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
I'm tired of these "anti smart device" articles. Here's the harsh truth: most people don't care or appreciate Netflix/Disney/whatever being built in. Alternatives exist if you're so inclined.
- ArmandTanzarian 4y ago
  Unless things have changed since i last researched this, there aren't non-smart hdtvs currently being manufactured.
  - Bjartr 4y ago
    What you want to buy is commercial signage displays. They're dumb and reliable.
    - askiiart 4y ago
      Mind giving a link to these? All I can find is basically normal smart TVs.
      - 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
        I don't think you're mistaken about the big-picture situation, but if you want to focus on models with a bit less "TV DNA" in them, it might be interesting to browse through [1]. [1] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/digital-signage-monitors/ci/36550/N/3512314153?filters=fct_brand_name%3Anec%7Csharp%7Cviewsonic%7Cbenq https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/digital-signage-moni...
        fbdab103 4y ago
        At a glance, those prices are straight-up horrible in comparison to a consumer model. How much revenue is the Smart-we-upload-everything consumer model generating? I would have thought tens-of-dollars at most.
        0xcde4c3db 4y ago
        My non-expert impression is that it's mostly a matter of consumer-oriented product lines facing more competitive pressure on price than business-oriented product lines. To put it another way, the consumer product lines don't have ads and spyware because those make a lot of money, but because vendors need to fight tooth-and-claw for every dollar of margin in that market.
        than3 4y ago
        When you have less than a handful of companies creating the products there is no effective competitive pressure. They control future supply which raises or lowers the price at their whim. The feature-set needed to get money from spyware is not mutually exclusive. Its a value, no-cost added to improve profit. That's all the business people see, and Accurint is more than happy to pay with those government funds to enable historic lookups of your behavior in your private home sans court.
rolenthedeep 4y ago
While I don't necessarily disagree with the author, my phone now reeks of bengay from just opening this article. This whole thing just drips "old man yelling at cloud"
- seattle_spring 4y ago
  That's pretty much the National Review's target audience, so you're not wrong.
adriancr 4y ago
I made my tv semi dumb via a dns whitelist and some firewall rules. Set up code to do dns forwarding/dropping on a raspberry pi pico for fun and its been working great. Only allows netflix/prime/disney+ and so far no ads. https://github.com/AdrianCX/pico_hole https://github.com/AdrianCX/pico_hole
- VTimofeenko 4y ago
  I have been thinking about incorporating similar thing for my unbound/nsd stack through client tagging. How do you maintain the white list of domains for netflix/prime/disney+?
  - adriancr 4y ago
    > I have been thinking about incorporating similar thing for my unbound/nsd stack through client tagging That's a nice idea, ping if you do get it working. > How do you maintain the white list of domains for netflix/prime/disney+? You can use any of existing whitelists for domains like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JO2EY/Rules/master/Surge/RULE-SET/Streaming.list https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JO2EY/Rules/master/Surge/R... Domains for me are hardcoded, i recompile to change them (not ideal, i only did it to experiment and it's good enough so it stuck, also not much ram) If things stop working I look at logs and update. On other environments you could just present domains in a UI and have user block/allow/permanent block and hide. (that would be fine for me)
    - VTimofeenko 4y ago
      Thank you! I am currently using StevenBlack's host file for ad blocking across all DNS clients. The tagging setup is used as a split-horizon DNS; for example, my tiny tiny RSS domain gets resolved to 192.168.1.3 on my LAN and 10.1.2.3 for wireguard VPN clients. I am using NixOS and consuming my own infrastructure definition, so the config is currently not portable, but I have been thinking about splitting it out into multiple files and publishing it.
      - 4y ago
ViceCitySage 4y ago
I have a Sceptre TV that I bought a few years ago and couldn't be happier. Sceptre does have Smart TVs using Roku or Google TV, but there are many models such as what I bought that are modern (made within past 3-5 years) and non-smart. Quality isn't anything substantial but its sufficient and not horrible. Hate how bloated proprietary botnet is the norm out of the gate. Most people already have or will just buy their own media centers like game consoles or Fire Sticks anyway. Personally I have a SBC with LibreELEC (Just Enough OS for Kodi).
- than3 4y ago
  Sceptre is pretty much the only game in town at this point if you are looking for a regular non-SMART TV. I hate how these companies have malevolently made it so you don't have any choice about installing what ammounts to sophisticated surveillance devices in your own home. When I talk about HIPAA protected issues with my family, in my own home, I should not suddenly see ads directly targeting the related condition I was talking about, and yet I do.
  - washadjeffmad 4y ago
    Vendors provide "commercial" displays whose only differences are better warranties, more complete serial control and, you guessed it, no ads or SMART features. Some have a web accessible menu, and others you can buy a separate service remote for to program the panel exactly as you need it to function. In general, there's no reason to network connect your TV, but if you do, and they won't they don't tell you this, you don't have to accept the TOS for the SMART features or data collection. The TV will still work.
    - than3 4y ago
      You won't necessarily have the choice about not connecting to the internet. Also, providers have implicitly forced you to agree to ToS to use the device by not returning it and bundling a take it or leave it agreement with the TV. If you want to watch TV, this is your only option. That's not even getting into the mesh networks, or the obvious expansion of those networks to their trucks.
moistly 4y ago
I am surprised that there isn’t a website with instructions on how to give your television a lobotomy. Snip the leg of a chip, or pull the wire to the antenna, stuff like that. Turn it into a dumb display and do everything using a separate entertainment box.
JohnFen 4y ago
I require any TV I might buy to be dumb. If smart is the only option, then I'll just skip a TV altogether.
euroderf 4y ago
In Finland you can't lock the toy into the Happy Meal: the toy has to be sold separately too. Using analogous logic, the EU could mandate that all audio-visual consumer devices can be sold at two prices: One price for a machine that is effectively firewalled, and guaranteed not to accept anything from third-party websites OR to phone home (or anywhere it isn't asked to) (except of course when asked to go online to get software updates). A second (presumably higher) price for infestation with crapware & nagware. If the former is the default setting (which would be mandated), then the latter becomes inevitable, driven by the business models now in existence. This regulation might be written to include computers too, which would be awesome.
jonhankok 4y ago
Has it dawned on anyone to simply not use the so called smart features of a smart TV? I got a killer deal on my Roku 4K TV that I use exclusively as a monitor. The TV has never been set up on the WiFi, so it cannot access anything nor act as a surveillance device.

LinuxBender 4y ago

Non-JS accessible version [1] [1] - https://archive.ph/Fh4Qc https://archive.ph/Fh4Qc

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

cityzen 4y ago

Rage against shitty websites… I can’t even see the article with all the pop ups, jittering on scroll, etc. I’m sure it’s deep, maybe post it on a “dumb” website so we can read it.

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
The solution to the author's problem is to pay more for a better device. The solution to your problem is to pay the author so the ads aren't needed.
- tsuujin 4y ago
  Cable TV would like a word.

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago

I'm tired of these "anti smart device" articles. Here's the harsh truth: most people don't care or appreciate Netflix/Disney/whatever being built in. Alternatives exist if you're so inclined.

ArmandTanzarian 4y ago
Unless things have changed since i last researched this, there aren't non-smart hdtvs currently being manufactured.
- Bjartr 4y ago
  What you want to buy is commercial signage displays. They're dumb and reliable.
  - askiiart 4y ago
    Mind giving a link to these? All I can find is basically normal smart TVs.
    - 0xcde4c3db 4y ago
      I don't think you're mistaken about the big-picture situation, but if you want to focus on models with a bit less "TV DNA" in them, it might be interesting to browse through [1]. [1] https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/digital-signage-monitors/ci/36550/N/3512314153?filters=fct_brand_name%3Anec%7Csharp%7Cviewsonic%7Cbenq https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/products/digital-signage-moni...
      - fbdab103 4y ago
        At a glance, those prices are straight-up horrible in comparison to a consumer model. How much revenue is the Smart-we-upload-everything consumer model generating? I would have thought tens-of-dollars at most.
        0xcde4c3db 4y ago
        My non-expert impression is that it's mostly a matter of consumer-oriented product lines facing more competitive pressure on price than business-oriented product lines. To put it another way, the consumer product lines don't have ads and spyware because those make a lot of money, but because vendors need to fight tooth-and-claw for every dollar of margin in that market.
        than3 4y ago
        When you have less than a handful of companies creating the products there is no effective competitive pressure. They control future supply which raises or lowers the price at their whim. The feature-set needed to get money from spyware is not mutually exclusive. Its a value, no-cost added to improve profit. That's all the business people see, and Accurint is more than happy to pay with those government funds to enable historic lookups of your behavior in your private home sans court.

rolenthedeep 4y ago

While I don't necessarily disagree with the author, my phone now reeks of bengay from just opening this article. This whole thing just drips "old man yelling at cloud"

seattle_spring 4y ago
That's pretty much the National Review's target audience, so you're not wrong.

adriancr 4y ago

I made my tv semi dumb via a dns whitelist and some firewall rules. Set up code to do dns forwarding/dropping on a raspberry pi pico for fun and its been working great. Only allows netflix/prime/disney+ and so far no ads. https://github.com/AdrianCX/pico_hole https://github.com/AdrianCX/pico_hole

VTimofeenko 4y ago
I have been thinking about incorporating similar thing for my unbound/nsd stack through client tagging. How do you maintain the white list of domains for netflix/prime/disney+?
- adriancr 4y ago
  > I have been thinking about incorporating similar thing for my unbound/nsd stack through client tagging That's a nice idea, ping if you do get it working. > How do you maintain the white list of domains for netflix/prime/disney+? You can use any of existing whitelists for domains like this: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JO2EY/Rules/master/Surge/RULE-SET/Streaming.list https://raw.githubusercontent.com/JO2EY/Rules/master/Surge/R... Domains for me are hardcoded, i recompile to change them (not ideal, i only did it to experiment and it's good enough so it stuck, also not much ram) If things stop working I look at logs and update. On other environments you could just present domains in a UI and have user block/allow/permanent block and hide. (that would be fine for me)
  - VTimofeenko 4y ago
    Thank you! I am currently using StevenBlack's host file for ad blocking across all DNS clients. The tagging setup is used as a split-horizon DNS; for example, my tiny tiny RSS domain gets resolved to 192.168.1.3 on my LAN and 10.1.2.3 for wireguard VPN clients. I am using NixOS and consuming my own infrastructure definition, so the config is currently not portable, but I have been thinking about splitting it out into multiple files and publishing it.
    - 4y ago

ViceCitySage 4y ago

I have a Sceptre TV that I bought a few years ago and couldn't be happier. Sceptre does have Smart TVs using Roku or Google TV, but there are many models such as what I bought that are modern (made within past 3-5 years) and non-smart. Quality isn't anything substantial but its sufficient and not horrible. Hate how bloated proprietary botnet is the norm out of the gate. Most people already have or will just buy their own media centers like game consoles or Fire Sticks anyway. Personally I have a SBC with LibreELEC (Just Enough OS for Kodi).

than3 4y ago
Sceptre is pretty much the only game in town at this point if you are looking for a regular non-SMART TV. I hate how these companies have malevolently made it so you don't have any choice about installing what ammounts to sophisticated surveillance devices in your own home. When I talk about HIPAA protected issues with my family, in my own home, I should not suddenly see ads directly targeting the related condition I was talking about, and yet I do.
- washadjeffmad 4y ago
  Vendors provide "commercial" displays whose only differences are better warranties, more complete serial control and, you guessed it, no ads or SMART features. Some have a web accessible menu, and others you can buy a separate service remote for to program the panel exactly as you need it to function. In general, there's no reason to network connect your TV, but if you do, and they won't they don't tell you this, you don't have to accept the TOS for the SMART features or data collection. The TV will still work.
  - than3 4y ago
    You won't necessarily have the choice about not connecting to the internet. Also, providers have implicitly forced you to agree to ToS to use the device by not returning it and bundling a take it or leave it agreement with the TV. If you want to watch TV, this is your only option. That's not even getting into the mesh networks, or the obvious expansion of those networks to their trucks.

moistly 4y ago

I am surprised that there isn’t a website with instructions on how to give your television a lobotomy. Snip the leg of a chip, or pull the wire to the antenna, stuff like that. Turn it into a dumb display and do everything using a separate entertainment box.

JohnFen 4y ago

I require any TV I might buy to be dumb. If smart is the only option, then I'll just skip a TV altogether.

euroderf 4y ago

In Finland you can't lock the toy into the Happy Meal: the toy has to be sold separately too. Using analogous logic, the EU could mandate that all audio-visual consumer devices can be sold at two prices: One price for a machine that is effectively firewalled, and guaranteed not to accept anything from third-party websites OR to phone home (or anywhere it isn't asked to) (except of course when asked to go online to get software updates). A second (presumably higher) price for infestation with crapware & nagware. If the former is the default setting (which would be mandated), then the latter becomes inevitable, driven by the business models now in existence. This regulation might be written to include computers too, which would be awesome.

jonhankok 4y ago

Has it dawned on anyone to simply not use the so called smart features of a smart TV? I got a killer deal on my Roku 4K TV that I use exclusively as a monitor. The TV has never been set up on the WiFi, so it cannot access anything nor act as a surveillance device.