4 ms·

I agree with most of what you said, but I think one line is out of touch. > And finally, even if the causation is correct, all it indicates is that needle exch

by htag 4y ago

I agree with most of what you said, but I think one line is out of touch. > And finally, even if the causation is correct, all it indicates is that needle exchange programs need to also provide drug testing capabilities so the presence of fentanyl can easily be identified. This assumes that there are no individuals that are knowingly injecting fentanyl or that a drug user would not take drugs in their possession if they knew it contained fentanyl. Yes, there are individuals that unknowingly take a fentanyl containing substance but I am doubtful that those deepest in opioid addiction avoid it.

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago
Fentanyl is not a pleasurable drug. Someone buying heroin wants heroin, not a drug that will just knock them out or kill them.
- xyzzyz 4y ago
  This is wrong. There is no heroin anymore, only fentanyl. The addicts know what they are getting.
  - jeffreyrogers 4y ago
    You're getting downvoted but I have heard the same thing directly from addicts. And many prefer fentanyl.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
  - ROTMetro 4y ago
    Why is this being downvoted? I'd expand it to almost all pills are now just mexi's being called 'xyz' as well. Dudes are just ordering fentanyl analogs off the web from China, testing it on themselves so they don't get hit for selling bunk work, then moving it. If you are desperate and addicted yourself this route is preferred to sketchy alternatives and dealing with super scary individuals. Your biggest risk of getting caught isn't the trafficking but people so easily dying sticking you with a case with a body on it. The reverse opium war has begun with China but no one wants to talk about it. Over half the dudes I did time with with drug charges went this route and got it all over the intermail/international shipping vs cartel and the only reason a case would get strong enough to convict was if it got a body put on it.
- throwaway82388 4y ago
  That is a reasonable assumption, however, many opioid users deliberately use fentanyl. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S095539592100308X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09553...
  - rhaway84773 4y ago
    That’s interesting. I had no idea that was the case. That being said, a needle exchange program could always require the testing of fentanyl and if fentanyl is found decline service. So the people who apparently want fentanyl and are encouraged by the needle exchange programs would not have them as an incentive anyways.
  - rhaway84773 4y ago
    To be clear, I think the research is excellent and important. My problem is with the spin the Economist puts on it (and it’s always more egregious with the economist because of the lack of a byline). The Economist predisposes it’s readers to believe that this indicates needle exchange programs are bad, as opposed to leaving open the possibility that due to changing circumstances needle exchange programs which have proven to be extremely successful, also need to adapt, much like every other individual, program, company or non-profit at any time.
    - throwaway82388 4y ago
      One thing is clear: the problem—the problems—are too multivariate for any one solution. Programs like these are triage, the root causes are distant and largely unaddressed.
- hotpotamus 4y ago
  The only opioid I've ever taken was fentanyl when I had my wisdom teeth taken out. I highly recommend it if it's an option, and frankly there are many calls I've been on where I wish that sedation was available.
  - newaccount74 4y ago
    I got a local anesthetic and Ibuprofen when my wisdom teeth were taken out. Worked fine. I don't understand why doctors are still so quick to prescribe opioids.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      Yeah I don’t get that either. I took a Motrin after I got my teeth removed and I gave the Vicodin to my friends. And these days Vicodin looks like Pez because the dentists are dealing fentanyl for reasons nobody can understand.
    - saltcured 4y ago
      Having wisdom teeth removed can range from a simple tooth extraction to invasive oral surgery. In the heavier cases, a flap of gum tissue and covering jaw bone are cut away to expose a submerged tooth that is oriented the wrong way. The tooth is then demolished in place so that the chunks can be lifted out. The patient would be sedated during this procedure, and the wound and recovery period is significantly different.
      - effingwewt 4y ago
        I had impacted (the aforementioned submerged and inward-facing) wisdom teeth- one of which had fractured from the pressure. Went from fine one day with the caveat that one day I'd need oral surgery to have them removed, to burning with a fever while finding an oral surgeon ASAP. Needed invasive oral surgery. Had to be put under twice-once before operation, and once when bringing me out after, as I had a paradoxical reaction and was thrashing about. Me screaming I didn't know the surgeon and anesthesiologist and thrashing about isn't super good after oral surgery. Hurt like the dickens afterwards and had to eat soup for a good while. They gave me ibuprofen and tylenol with codeine afterwards. I only used the ibuprofen and was fine. It only blunted the pain but was definitely manageable after the first day or so. I've had doctors try and prescribe narcotics for some weird things. I've always denied them as I had a friend who became addicted to heroin after being prescribed oxys for serious 3rd degree burns. Every time I have to deny narcotics multiple times before they relent and offer something non-narcotic. Anyways just one person's experience.
- refurb 4y ago
  This isn’t correct. Fentanyl is definitely a pleasurable drug just like heroin, morphine, oxycodone. Users often have preferences for which is most pleasurable, but nobody would say fentanyl doesn’t get you high.

by htag 4y ago

ThrowawayTestr 4y ago

Fentanyl is not a pleasurable drug. Someone buying heroin wants heroin, not a drug that will just knock them out or kill them.

xyzzyz 4y ago
This is wrong. There is no heroin anymore, only fentanyl. The addicts know what they are getting.
- jeffreyrogers 4y ago
  You're getting downvoted but I have heard the same thing directly from addicts. And many prefer fentanyl.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  Why is this being downvoted? I'd expand it to almost all pills are now just mexi's being called 'xyz' as well. Dudes are just ordering fentanyl analogs off the web from China, testing it on themselves so they don't get hit for selling bunk work, then moving it. If you are desperate and addicted yourself this route is preferred to sketchy alternatives and dealing with super scary individuals. Your biggest risk of getting caught isn't the trafficking but people so easily dying sticking you with a case with a body on it. The reverse opium war has begun with China but no one wants to talk about it. Over half the dudes I did time with with drug charges went this route and got it all over the intermail/international shipping vs cartel and the only reason a case would get strong enough to convict was if it got a body put on it.
throwaway82388 4y ago
That is a reasonable assumption, however, many opioid users deliberately use fentanyl. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S095539592100308X https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09553...
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  That’s interesting. I had no idea that was the case. That being said, a needle exchange program could always require the testing of fentanyl and if fentanyl is found decline service. So the people who apparently want fentanyl and are encouraged by the needle exchange programs would not have them as an incentive anyways.
- rhaway84773 4y ago
  To be clear, I think the research is excellent and important. My problem is with the spin the Economist puts on it (and it’s always more egregious with the economist because of the lack of a byline). The Economist predisposes it’s readers to believe that this indicates needle exchange programs are bad, as opposed to leaving open the possibility that due to changing circumstances needle exchange programs which have proven to be extremely successful, also need to adapt, much like every other individual, program, company or non-profit at any time.
  - throwaway82388 4y ago
    One thing is clear: the problem—the problems—are too multivariate for any one solution. Programs like these are triage, the root causes are distant and largely unaddressed.
hotpotamus 4y ago
The only opioid I've ever taken was fentanyl when I had my wisdom teeth taken out. I highly recommend it if it's an option, and frankly there are many calls I've been on where I wish that sedation was available.
- newaccount74 4y ago
  I got a local anesthetic and Ibuprofen when my wisdom teeth were taken out. Worked fine. I don't understand why doctors are still so quick to prescribe opioids.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    Yeah I don’t get that either. I took a Motrin after I got my teeth removed and I gave the Vicodin to my friends. And these days Vicodin looks like Pez because the dentists are dealing fentanyl for reasons nobody can understand.
  - saltcured 4y ago
    Having wisdom teeth removed can range from a simple tooth extraction to invasive oral surgery. In the heavier cases, a flap of gum tissue and covering jaw bone are cut away to expose a submerged tooth that is oriented the wrong way. The tooth is then demolished in place so that the chunks can be lifted out. The patient would be sedated during this procedure, and the wound and recovery period is significantly different.
    - effingwewt 4y ago
      I had impacted (the aforementioned submerged and inward-facing) wisdom teeth- one of which had fractured from the pressure. Went from fine one day with the caveat that one day I'd need oral surgery to have them removed, to burning with a fever while finding an oral surgeon ASAP. Needed invasive oral surgery. Had to be put under twice-once before operation, and once when bringing me out after, as I had a paradoxical reaction and was thrashing about. Me screaming I didn't know the surgeon and anesthesiologist and thrashing about isn't super good after oral surgery. Hurt like the dickens afterwards and had to eat soup for a good while. They gave me ibuprofen and tylenol with codeine afterwards. I only used the ibuprofen and was fine. It only blunted the pain but was definitely manageable after the first day or so. I've had doctors try and prescribe narcotics for some weird things. I've always denied them as I had a friend who became addicted to heroin after being prescribed oxys for serious 3rd degree burns. Every time I have to deny narcotics multiple times before they relent and offer something non-narcotic. Anyways just one person's experience.
refurb 4y ago
This isn’t correct. Fentanyl is definitely a pleasurable drug just like heroin, morphine, oxycodone. Users often have preferences for which is most pleasurable, but nobody would say fentanyl doesn’t get you high.