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"PWAs" are a dozen different standards. And everyone selects a different subset of them to call "the one true PWA". Apple has supported the absolute vast major

"PWAs" are a dozen different standards. And everyone selects a different subset of them to call "the one true PWA". Apple has supported the absolute vast majority of them since forever. And they have literally nothing to do with doing anything in WASM.

galangalalgol 4y ago
WASM is involved because webapps would be a primary usecase for it. A way to deploy your webapp with more performance and less effort at obfuscation. If webapps aren't first class citizens, the effort to port buts of your native and webapp together to make a WASM based PWA has a lower ROI. A quick search show plenty of articles talking about the limitations of webapps on iOS. Here is one, it is a year old, but then most WASM project repos I look at haven't had a commit in that long... https://hub.tigrenpwa.com/pwa-on-ios/ https://hub.tigrenpwa.com/pwa-on-ios/ I'm not attacking anyone's choices. I don't particularly love the idea of all these blackbox WebApps and the more stuff we let theough the sandbox the bigger the attack surface. Once again Apple's motive to retain complete control aligns with the motive to keep devices secure. I don't like native apps either for the most part, black boxes with even more attack surface. If webapps with less attack surface displace native apps with more, I mostly call that a win. I write embedded numeric heavy code in c++/cuda and rust, so it is at best peripheral to my day job, meaning I don't have the expertise or motivation to have a strong opinion. I'm engaging in the conversation primarily to learn.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  > A quick search show plenty of articles talking about the limitations of webapps on iOS. Again: "PWAs" are a dozen different standards (or perhaps more). And everyone selects a different subset of them to call "the one true PWA". For example, some may say that "omg I need direct access to Bluetooth or other hardware APIs". Well, those are Chrome-only non-standards that neither Firefox nor Safari will implement. There are some like push notifications which are debatable (but arriving in Safari this year). And then there's background sync that Chrome enabled by default in 2016, and which still had issues in 2019 that both Firefox and Safari objected to: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 No idea what their position on it is now. And so on and so forth. But these articles and half of HN will scream until they are blue in the face claiming that "it's Safari that's holding the PWAs back". Where reality is more complex and the narrative is mostly driven by Chrome, unfortunately.
  - galangalalgol 4y ago
    Thanks for the insight! That makes sense, Chrome trying to grab control from native apps feeds Google's ad machine.

galangalalgol 4y ago

WASM is involved because webapps would be a primary usecase for it. A way to deploy your webapp with more performance and less effort at obfuscation. If webapps aren't first class citizens, the effort to port buts of your native and webapp together to make a WASM based PWA has a lower ROI. A quick search show plenty of articles talking about the limitations of webapps on iOS. Here is one, it is a year old, but then most WASM project repos I look at haven't had a commit in that long... https://hub.tigrenpwa.com/pwa-on-ios/ https://hub.tigrenpwa.com/pwa-on-ios/ I'm not attacking anyone's choices. I don't particularly love the idea of all these blackbox WebApps and the more stuff we let theough the sandbox the bigger the attack surface. Once again Apple's motive to retain complete control aligns with the motive to keep devices secure. I don't like native apps either for the most part, black boxes with even more attack surface. If webapps with less attack surface displace native apps with more, I mostly call that a win. I write embedded numeric heavy code in c++/cuda and rust, so it is at best peripheral to my day job, meaning I don't have the expertise or motivation to have a strong opinion. I'm engaging in the conversation primarily to learn.

dmitriid 4y ago
> A quick search show plenty of articles talking about the limitations of webapps on iOS. Again: "PWAs" are a dozen different standards (or perhaps more). And everyone selects a different subset of them to call "the one true PWA". For example, some may say that "omg I need direct access to Bluetooth or other hardware APIs". Well, those are Chrome-only non-standards that neither Firefox nor Safari will implement. There are some like push notifications which are debatable (but arriving in Safari this year). And then there's background sync that Chrome enabled by default in 2016, and which still had issues in 2019 that both Firefox and Safari objected to: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/214 No idea what their position on it is now. And so on and so forth. But these articles and half of HN will scream until they are blue in the face claiming that "it's Safari that's holding the PWAs back". Where reality is more complex and the narrative is mostly driven by Chrome, unfortunately.
- galangalalgol 4y ago
  Thanks for the insight! That makes sense, Chrome trying to grab control from native apps feeds Google's ad machine.