7 ms·

EmacsConf 2022

178 points by hprotagonist 4y ago

_eht 4y ago
And EdConf tomorrow! Conference season is among us. exit quit bye /q ...
- hestefisk 4y ago
  I heard VimConf was above standard. ducks
  - hestefisk 4y ago
    Seriously, this was meant to be a joke / pun, since ed (and not vi) is the standard editor.
Wonnk13 4y ago
Good to know! For as much as I use Emacs I don’t really follow the Emacs community / ecosystem. I saw version 29 was recently cut- is there anywhere I can get a good overview of “best practices in 2022”? I wouldn’t mind dusting off my init.el and updating it. I haven’t had a good yak shave in five years or so :)
- hprotagonist 4y ago
  https://blog.phundrak.com/emacs-29-what-can-we-expect/ https://blog.phundrak.com/emacs-29-what-can-we-expect/ has some highlights. eglot, tree-sitter are both very nice. the sqlite integration is currently what i'd describe as "cute", but maybe not the most featureful.
  - signa11 4y ago
    yup, here is the previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33788208 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33788208
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    I'm shocked that ast based edition is back. Many people were against this, lots of grammar based tools sadly failed (for better or worse reasons). In a way it seems that the mainstream rose above regex level tree manipulation, and that even html/css made people start to think in subtrees rather than linear data. This might reduce efforts a lot, whether it is for edition or analysis. And this fine grained source interaction was why I was so enamoured with emacs in the first place. It was such a deep feeling of control compared to anything I tried in the late 90s.
    - hprotagonist 4y ago
      tangentially related, https://hazel.org/ https://hazel.org/
      - agumonkey 4y ago
        Thanks a lot :)
- tmtvl 4y ago
  The best way to set keybindings has been changed, from define-key and global-set-key to keymap-set and keymap-global-set. Some examples: (keymap-global-set "<remap> <upcase-word>" #'upcase-dwim) (keymap-set icomplete-minibuffer-map "TAB" #'icomplete-force-complete) You can also use package.el to install packages from version control now, check the package-vc-selected-packages variable.
  - shunqor 4y ago
    Heloo may name thz shunqor
- ReneFroger 4y ago
  Not to spamming, but https://emacs.zeef.com https://emacs.zeef.com was a valuable resource for me to find many Emacs packages and communities to my liking.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
throwaway27084 4y ago
Can you watch it purely in Emacs?
- donio 4y ago
  Depends on your definition of "purely". I will watch using an mpv managed by EXWM so it will be showing up as an Emacs buffer. Or you could use the embedded video player in EAF.
  - mark_l_watson 4y ago
    Please post a link for setting this up. Thanks. EDIT: found https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EXWM https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EXWM I would like to try that on an old Linux laptop
spenrose 4y ago
As with the high vote totals for Firefox-related links, the presence of a link on an ancient* text editor at #1 on HN (as I write) reveals that HN voters are a bit ... old school. These tools' relative importance has declined over the last 15 years. * (I am a graybeard who used Emacs daily for a long time)
- hprotagonist 4y ago
  you say old school, i say “prefers battle-hardened tools” it is kind of amusing to use an editor every day that is significantly older than me, i have to admit.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- tuukkah 4y ago
  What do you use now and how is it better than Emacs? I thought I was behind the times and learned VSCode but I've been underwhelmed so far. You still need to choose, install and configure extensions but these extensions are not of the same quality as Emacs extensions. For example, the Git extensions of VSCode fail as soon as something a bit unexpected happens. With no Magit around, you end up using Git command line which is not known for great ergonomics.
- markdeloura 4y ago
  Editor wars are right up there with tabs vs spaces, right? I too was an Emacs devotee once upon a time. On of the CS professors at our school in the late 90's was even more so, known for doing all his work from inside of Emacs. But these days VS Code is really making life easy. It's impressively feature-rich with a minimum of futzing.
- G3rn0ti 4y ago
  > These tools' relative importance has declined over the last 15 years. I would say to the contrary. There has been a flurry of new development on Emacs in the recent years initiated by a new generation of developers. New (and simpler) search and autocompletion frameworks (Ivy, vertico), native compilation of Elisp, the rise of Org and the advent of LSP clients (thx VScode). In the coming years Treesitter might render LSP obsolete some day. Exciting times ahead. And what does it mean to be an old piece of software anyway? Software may age but compared to hardware it has the advantage of being able to evolve. I hate it to break to you: Windows and Linux kernels are over 30 years old written in a language that was invented 50 years ago. The whole design principle of state of the art operating systems was invented in the 1970s. MS Office kernels are probably older than 30 years and the leading X86 platform looks back on an over 40 year old history. The first Python version was released back in 1991, that’s 30 years. JS almost has 27 years (1995 afir). Chrome BTW was released back in 2008, that’s already been 14 years. Safari‘s engine comes closer to 20 years. Does it even make any sense to compare Emacs 29 with versions from the 80s?
jhallenworld 4y ago
Check out HHC, the HP Handheld Conference. It's just like EmacsConf, but the people are older :-) https://hhuc.us/ https://hhuc.us/ The presentations are on YouTube, some I like: "Don't make me wait" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJdAvQpsGc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJdAvQpsGc "Book binding 2.0" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAnkiaefcB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAnkiaefcB8 "Know thine enemy (TI)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIN2y-SnA6c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIN2y-SnA6c (TI fast mode)
- sph 4y ago
  Cool, but completely off-topic.
  - agumonkey 4y ago
    Only partly so, I'm stretching it a bit but HP Calc's RPN is inspired by lisp, and emacs calc is in turn stack based, just like RPN :) It's a big cross pollinization fest.
    - zasdffaa 4y ago
      RPN is forth not lisp, and I seriously doubt HP got their idea from emacs. I think HP's RPN precedes the first release of emacs anyway. Edit: 1st release of emacs was 1976 so I take that last bit back.
      - agumonkey 4y ago
        Sorry, I mistyped. I was thinking about HP42 and above RPL not the basic RPN. RPL is a blend of lisp idiom on top of good old stack based RPN (list, map, numerical tower). It goes so far that they even added quoted lambda expressions. You could push << a -> + a a >> on your stack.
        jhallenworld 4y ago
        RPL is like LISP in that it's all about quoting. ' and eval are primary (unshifted) keys on these calculators. There was a LISP based pocket computer: the Casio AI-1000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-yuZ2pejGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-yuZ2pejGU
Erlangen 4y ago
The videos are pre-recorded, but after the video there is a live Q&A section. Come and join the IRC channel. It's a lot of fun.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  Was this an exceptional measure or a planned new kind of organization ? It's interesting.
  - bad416f1f5a2 4y ago
    This format started in 2018 or 2019, I can’t recall which.
    - hprotagonist 4y ago
      2019, just in time not to be a covid adaptation.
  - michaelanckaert 4y ago
    Fosdem has been doing prerecorded talks ever since the “covid” edition.
ducktective 4y ago
>You can view streams using the watch pages or in a streaming web player such as MPV. If you need to reverse the video for easier viewing (ex: turning dark mode into light mode), try a command like mpv --vf=negate URL. Love attention to details like these
davidkunz 4y ago
Right before NeovimConf: https://www.neovimconf.live/ https://www.neovimconf.live/
usr1106 4y ago
Oh no, I missed half of it already when reading this. Well, in theory I could watch a lot of recordings any time later. But in practice I hardly ever do. If I decide to attend a conference, I spend the day there, even if it's at my desk. (Or the night, hello Linuxcon Australia). If I don't register and attend real-time I will never find the time to watch most of it.

EmacsConf 2022

178 points by hprotagonist 4y ago

_eht 4y ago

And EdConf tomorrow! Conference season is among us. exit quit bye /q ...

hestefisk 4y ago
I heard VimConf was above standard. ducks
- hestefisk 4y ago
  Seriously, this was meant to be a joke / pun, since ed (and not vi) is the standard editor.

Wonnk13 4y ago

Good to know! For as much as I use Emacs I don’t really follow the Emacs community / ecosystem. I saw version 29 was recently cut- is there anywhere I can get a good overview of “best practices in 2022”? I wouldn’t mind dusting off my init.el and updating it. I haven’t had a good yak shave in five years or so :)

hprotagonist 4y ago
https://blog.phundrak.com/emacs-29-what-can-we-expect/ https://blog.phundrak.com/emacs-29-what-can-we-expect/ has some highlights. eglot, tree-sitter are both very nice. the sqlite integration is currently what i'd describe as "cute", but maybe not the most featureful.
- signa11 4y ago
  yup, here is the previous discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33788208 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33788208
- agumonkey 4y ago
  I'm shocked that ast based edition is back. Many people were against this, lots of grammar based tools sadly failed (for better or worse reasons). In a way it seems that the mainstream rose above regex level tree manipulation, and that even html/css made people start to think in subtrees rather than linear data. This might reduce efforts a lot, whether it is for edition or analysis. And this fine grained source interaction was why I was so enamoured with emacs in the first place. It was such a deep feeling of control compared to anything I tried in the late 90s.
  - hprotagonist 4y ago
    tangentially related, https://hazel.org/ https://hazel.org/
    - agumonkey 4y ago
      Thanks a lot :)
tmtvl 4y ago
The best way to set keybindings has been changed, from define-key and global-set-key to keymap-set and keymap-global-set. Some examples: (keymap-global-set "<remap> <upcase-word>" #'upcase-dwim) (keymap-set icomplete-minibuffer-map "TAB" #'icomplete-force-complete) You can also use package.el to install packages from version control now, check the package-vc-selected-packages variable.
- shunqor 4y ago
  Heloo may name thz shunqor
ReneFroger 4y ago
Not to spamming, but https://emacs.zeef.com https://emacs.zeef.com was a valuable resource for me to find many Emacs packages and communities to my liking.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

throwaway27084 4y ago

Can you watch it purely in Emacs?

donio 4y ago
Depends on your definition of "purely". I will watch using an mpv managed by EXWM so it will be showing up as an Emacs buffer. Or you could use the embedded video player in EAF.
- mark_l_watson 4y ago
  Please post a link for setting this up. Thanks. EDIT: found https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EXWM https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/EXWM I would like to try that on an old Linux laptop

spenrose 4y ago

As with the high vote totals for Firefox-related links, the presence of a link on an ancient* text editor at #1 on HN (as I write) reveals that HN voters are a bit ... old school. These tools' relative importance has declined over the last 15 years. * (I am a graybeard who used Emacs daily for a long time)

hprotagonist 4y ago
you say old school, i say “prefers battle-hardened tools” it is kind of amusing to use an editor every day that is significantly older than me, i have to admit.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
tuukkah 4y ago
What do you use now and how is it better than Emacs? I thought I was behind the times and learned VSCode but I've been underwhelmed so far. You still need to choose, install and configure extensions but these extensions are not of the same quality as Emacs extensions. For example, the Git extensions of VSCode fail as soon as something a bit unexpected happens. With no Magit around, you end up using Git command line which is not known for great ergonomics.
markdeloura 4y ago
Editor wars are right up there with tabs vs spaces, right? I too was an Emacs devotee once upon a time. On of the CS professors at our school in the late 90's was even more so, known for doing all his work from inside of Emacs. But these days VS Code is really making life easy. It's impressively feature-rich with a minimum of futzing.
G3rn0ti 4y ago
> These tools' relative importance has declined over the last 15 years. I would say to the contrary. There has been a flurry of new development on Emacs in the recent years initiated by a new generation of developers. New (and simpler) search and autocompletion frameworks (Ivy, vertico), native compilation of Elisp, the rise of Org and the advent of LSP clients (thx VScode). In the coming years Treesitter might render LSP obsolete some day. Exciting times ahead. And what does it mean to be an old piece of software anyway? Software may age but compared to hardware it has the advantage of being able to evolve. I hate it to break to you: Windows and Linux kernels are over 30 years old written in a language that was invented 50 years ago. The whole design principle of state of the art operating systems was invented in the 1970s. MS Office kernels are probably older than 30 years and the leading X86 platform looks back on an over 40 year old history. The first Python version was released back in 1991, that’s 30 years. JS almost has 27 years (1995 afir). Chrome BTW was released back in 2008, that’s already been 14 years. Safari‘s engine comes closer to 20 years. Does it even make any sense to compare Emacs 29 with versions from the 80s?

jhallenworld 4y ago

Check out HHC, the HP Handheld Conference. It's just like EmacsConf, but the people are older :-) https://hhuc.us/ https://hhuc.us/ The presentations are on YouTube, some I like: "Don't make me wait" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJdAvQpsGc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPJdAvQpsGc "Book binding 2.0" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAnkiaefcB8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAnkiaefcB8 "Know thine enemy (TI)" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIN2y-SnA6c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIN2y-SnA6c (TI fast mode)

sph 4y ago
Cool, but completely off-topic.
- agumonkey 4y ago
  Only partly so, I'm stretching it a bit but HP Calc's RPN is inspired by lisp, and emacs calc is in turn stack based, just like RPN :) It's a big cross pollinization fest.
  - zasdffaa 4y ago
    RPN is forth not lisp, and I seriously doubt HP got their idea from emacs. I think HP's RPN precedes the first release of emacs anyway. Edit: 1st release of emacs was 1976 so I take that last bit back.
    - agumonkey 4y ago
      Sorry, I mistyped. I was thinking about HP42 and above RPL not the basic RPN. RPL is a blend of lisp idiom on top of good old stack based RPN (list, map, numerical tower). It goes so far that they even added quoted lambda expressions. You could push << a -> + a a >> on your stack.
      - jhallenworld 4y ago
        RPL is like LISP in that it's all about quoting. ' and eval are primary (unshifted) keys on these calculators. There was a LISP based pocket computer: the Casio AI-1000: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-yuZ2pejGU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-yuZ2pejGU

Erlangen 4y ago

The videos are pre-recorded, but after the video there is a live Q&A section. Come and join the IRC channel. It's a lot of fun.

agumonkey 4y ago
Was this an exceptional measure or a planned new kind of organization ? It's interesting.
- bad416f1f5a2 4y ago
  This format started in 2018 or 2019, I can’t recall which.
  - hprotagonist 4y ago
    2019, just in time not to be a covid adaptation.
- michaelanckaert 4y ago
  Fosdem has been doing prerecorded talks ever since the “covid” edition.

ducktective 4y ago

>You can view streams using the watch pages or in a streaming web player such as MPV. If you need to reverse the video for easier viewing (ex: turning dark mode into light mode), try a command like mpv --vf=negate URL. Love attention to details like these

davidkunz 4y ago

Right before NeovimConf: https://www.neovimconf.live/ https://www.neovimconf.live/

usr1106 4y ago

Oh no, I missed half of it already when reading this. Well, in theory I could watch a lot of recordings any time later. But in practice I hardly ever do. If I decide to attend a conference, I spend the day there, even if it's at my desk. (Or the night, hello Linuxcon Australia). If I don't register and attend real-time I will never find the time to watch most of it.