8 ms·

the life of a politically inconvenient story: 1. it's conspiracy theory 2. it was obvious to everyone 3. forgotten

Ygg2 4y ago
I had this happen on Reddit personally. Shared my Covid experience. Got accused of spreading misinformation. Makes me wonder, if conspiracy theorists might have a point.
- dial9-1 4y ago
  I've consistently been called a conspiracy theorist since the whole covid story started. I got insider info and knew exactly how the timeline'd play out for years to come. at this point a "conspiracy" is just a "spoiler alert"
  - Ygg2 4y ago
    I've no such insight. I just said that: A) Got vaccine and got infected right after second dose (1 week) B) Noted some unvaccinated friends had no symptoms, so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. At this point Deus Ex was a credible prophetic game, where a "vaccine" that doesn't cure but postpones symptoms is seen as a miracle cure, which is eerily similar to "we'll need to be vaccinated every few months" that was present in media at some point. That's pretty much every pharma's wet dream. Edit: As someone outside of USA, I find it remarkable how people seem to associate vaccine skepticism, despite pharma in US having strong motivation to push novel drugs that don't solve the issue, just treat the symptoms.
    - viraptor 4y ago
      > so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. That's not the result that can be inferred from seeing unvaccinated people having no symptoms. In other words, people having no symptoms without vaccine or even having side effects from the vaccine itself does not disprove the statistic of vaccinated people having lesser symptoms on average.
      - Ygg2 4y ago
        Ok, but how do you differentiate asymptomatic carriers from vaccine effectiveness? And afaik the mRNA vaccines were fast tracked, leaving room for possible errors.
        viraptor 4y ago
        When testing and during early phases of deployment you'd track a sample of different cohorts more closely. Either explicitly by retesting a selected group, or analysing data from groups sampled anyway (many emergency doctors got a weekly test). So as Usual in studies - through data collection, statistics, and correcting for bias in cohorts. > afaik the mRNA vaccines were fast tracked, leaving room for possible errors There's already lots of information about the details of what the fast tracking meant. I would recommend reading some to understand it better than your summary.
        Ygg2 4y ago
        > There's already lots of information about the details of what the fast tracking meant. I just read this: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pfizer-vaccine-transmission-idUSL1N31F20E https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pfizer-vaccine-tra... > The same presentation slide describes “Other benefits likely uncertain at approval and only clearer after the vaccine is used” to include the vaccine’s “long term protection,” “prevention of infection (asymptomatic cases),” and “prevention of virus transmission in the community - needs specific studies post-approval necessary to show.” This implies they only checked it reduces symptoms in affected. Transmission prevention and long term immunity would be tested at later point. So what was then the point of getting everyone vaccinated? Weren't vaccines supposed to contain its spread? When I got vaccinated for various diseases, it gave long term immunity, not 4 doses over months to lessen the symptoms.
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        The point was to reduce hospitalizations, which was a measured outcome. You can't let everyone get infected if the hospitals won't be able to handle it. The flu vaccine also does not grant long term immunity, but it has the same utility for public health.
    - bart_spoon 4y ago
      > Noted some unvaccinated friends had no symptoms, so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. This is just flat-out wrong, and shows stunning ignorance of how clinical trials and medical research is done, which is probably why you were accused of spreading conspiracy theories. There’s an enormous body of research demonstrating the effectiveness of vaccines minimizing symptom severity.
    - UncleMeat 4y ago
      > B) Noted some unvaccinated friends had no symptoms, so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. What. This isn't how reasoning works. "My friend wasn't wearing a seatbelt when they got in a car accident and they didn't die but this other person was wearing a seatbelt and did die, so it's not like seatbelts have a provable positive impact on collision safety."
- headsoup 4y ago
  Maybe the point is people continue to be labelled 'conspiracy theorists' regardless of being actually, factually proven correct. Makes the arguing so much easier when you can just keep dismissing the 'other' rather than say sorry.
  - tekknik 4y ago
    So many words are devalued these days, like facist, racist, Nazi, and extremist.
    - berenza 4y ago
      devalued in the sense that it's easy to trip over some low bar for the new definition and be assigned that label. not devalued all that much in the sense of the negative effect that label has on the labelled person's argument or reputation. which is, of course, very convenient for people who want to throw those words around online.
      - tekknik 4y ago
        exactly
- BurningFrog 4y ago
  It can be impossible to tell conspiracies apart from many people independently wanting the same things.
jongjong 4y ago
So true but I don't think the gaslighting aspect will be forgotten so easily. First, we were gaslit about our understanding of the facts, then we were gaslit about having being gaslit. Many public figures have lost all credibility.
- nathias 4y ago
  remember the Panama papers?
  - jongjong 4y ago
    Of course.
    - nathias 4y ago
      yes, but the media cycle doesn't, that's what I mean with forgotten (and this too shall pass)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jliptzin 4y ago
I don't understand why this is a story to begin with. Twitter is a private company that does what it wants. It can boot or block whoever or whatever story they want to for whatever reason. Obviously if the people running the site lean towards one political direction, that's going to affect their moderation policies. Why don't we analyze Fox News's decision to run or not run certain stories. People's first mistake is getting their news from Twitter, or Fox News for that matter. This is not a free speech issue. If you are interested in the Hunter Biden story there are about 300 other sources you could find information about it within about 1/2 a second, it was one of the most widely reported stories in 2020 if I remember correctly. I guess the story is that the people that ran Twitter were left leaning? Which we already knew going into it?
- tekknik 4y ago
  > It can boot or block whoever or whatever story they want to for whatever reason. We discussed this years ago when it first started. When you’re the defacto town square then no, you shouldn’t be able to kick people out for whatever reason. > Why don't we analyze Fox News's decision to run or not run certain stories. How do you justify the left ignoring stories in their media? For instance the story about Chase Staub. > People's first mistake is getting their news from Twitter, or Fox News for that matter. There’s always an assumption it’s Fox. Try WSJ. > This is not a free speech issue. Very much disagree. Ask yourself why you’re so upset at this information. Or if you’re not upset, ask why there is so much anxiety around this story. Clearly some the left are concerned about what this will result in. > I guess the story is that the people that ran Twitter were left leaning? Which we already knew going into it? Yes and that’s a problem when they use their political viewpoints to control the conversation.
  - jliptzin 4y ago
    I’m not upset, I’m just amused. It’s always amazing to me when “free market” conservatives complain about private companies making private decisions that they don’t like. I go on Twitter maybe 5 minutes a month. There are dozens of other “town squares” and if you think twitter is the only one you’re on there way too much. Has anyone been arrested or imprisoned for running the Hunter Biden laptop story? Has any government authority threatened anyone with arrest for running the Hunter Biden story? No? Then not a free speech issue. Twitter is not a government agency. Don’t like their moderation practices? Start your own twitter which is exactly what Trump did and is the correct response. He can then push or censor whatever stories he wants and people decide whether or not they want to traffic on that site. That is the beauty of the free market we play in. If Fox wants to be the propaganda arm of the Republican Party while masquerading as news, good for them. If Elon wants to unban everyone on Twitter and let everything go unfettered with no moderation, good for him. There are lots of other choices out there. None of this is new or interesting. This seems like more of a school cafeteria food fight than any kind of “free speech” issue.
lazyeye 4y ago
It's amazing how easy it is for the media to make something a conspiracy theory, no matter how important or factual. Just dont talk about it. Effortless.

Ygg2 4y ago

I had this happen on Reddit personally. Shared my Covid experience. Got accused of spreading misinformation. Makes me wonder, if conspiracy theorists might have a point.

dial9-1 4y ago
I've consistently been called a conspiracy theorist since the whole covid story started. I got insider info and knew exactly how the timeline'd play out for years to come. at this point a "conspiracy" is just a "spoiler alert"
- Ygg2 4y ago
  I've no such insight. I just said that: A) Got vaccine and got infected right after second dose (1 week) B) Noted some unvaccinated friends had no symptoms, so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. At this point Deus Ex was a credible prophetic game, where a "vaccine" that doesn't cure but postpones symptoms is seen as a miracle cure, which is eerily similar to "we'll need to be vaccinated every few months" that was present in media at some point. That's pretty much every pharma's wet dream. Edit: As someone outside of USA, I find it remarkable how people seem to associate vaccine skepticism, despite pharma in US having strong motivation to push novel drugs that don't solve the issue, just treat the symptoms.
  - viraptor 4y ago
    > so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. That's not the result that can be inferred from seeing unvaccinated people having no symptoms. In other words, people having no symptoms without vaccine or even having side effects from the vaccine itself does not disprove the statistic of vaccinated people having lesser symptoms on average.
    - Ygg2 4y ago
      Ok, but how do you differentiate asymptomatic carriers from vaccine effectiveness? And afaik the mRNA vaccines were fast tracked, leaving room for possible errors.
      - viraptor 4y ago
        When testing and during early phases of deployment you'd track a sample of different cohorts more closely. Either explicitly by retesting a selected group, or analysing data from groups sampled anyway (many emergency doctors got a weekly test). So as Usual in studies - through data collection, statistics, and correcting for bias in cohorts. > afaik the mRNA vaccines were fast tracked, leaving room for possible errors There's already lots of information about the details of what the fast tracking meant. I would recommend reading some to understand it better than your summary.
        Ygg2 4y ago
        > There's already lots of information about the details of what the fast tracking meant. I just read this: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pfizer-vaccine-transmission-idUSL1N31F20E https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-pfizer-vaccine-tra... > The same presentation slide describes “Other benefits likely uncertain at approval and only clearer after the vaccine is used” to include the vaccine’s “long term protection,” “prevention of infection (asymptomatic cases),” and “prevention of virus transmission in the community - needs specific studies post-approval necessary to show.” This implies they only checked it reduces symptoms in affected. Transmission prevention and long term immunity would be tested at later point. So what was then the point of getting everyone vaccinated? Weren't vaccines supposed to contain its spread? When I got vaccinated for various diseases, it gave long term immunity, not 4 doses over months to lessen the symptoms.
        lern_too_spel 4y ago
        The point was to reduce hospitalizations, which was a measured outcome. You can't let everyone get infected if the hospitals won't be able to handle it. The flu vaccine also does not grant long term immunity, but it has the same utility for public health.
  - bart_spoon 4y ago
    > Noted some unvaccinated friends had no symptoms, so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. This is just flat-out wrong, and shows stunning ignorance of how clinical trials and medical research is done, which is probably why you were accused of spreading conspiracy theories. There’s an enormous body of research demonstrating the effectiveness of vaccines minimizing symptom severity.
  - UncleMeat 4y ago
    > B) Noted some unvaccinated friends had no symptoms, so it's not like Covid vaccine has a provable lessen the symptoms effect. What. This isn't how reasoning works. "My friend wasn't wearing a seatbelt when they got in a car accident and they didn't die but this other person was wearing a seatbelt and did die, so it's not like seatbelts have a provable positive impact on collision safety."
headsoup 4y ago
Maybe the point is people continue to be labelled 'conspiracy theorists' regardless of being actually, factually proven correct. Makes the arguing so much easier when you can just keep dismissing the 'other' rather than say sorry.
- tekknik 4y ago
  So many words are devalued these days, like facist, racist, Nazi, and extremist.
  - berenza 4y ago
    devalued in the sense that it's easy to trip over some low bar for the new definition and be assigned that label. not devalued all that much in the sense of the negative effect that label has on the labelled person's argument or reputation. which is, of course, very convenient for people who want to throw those words around online.
    - tekknik 4y ago
      exactly
BurningFrog 4y ago
It can be impossible to tell conspiracies apart from many people independently wanting the same things.

jongjong 4y ago

So true but I don't think the gaslighting aspect will be forgotten so easily. First, we were gaslit about our understanding of the facts, then we were gaslit about having being gaslit. Many public figures have lost all credibility.

nathias 4y ago
remember the Panama papers?
- jongjong 4y ago
  Of course.
  - nathias 4y ago
    yes, but the media cycle doesn't, that's what I mean with forgotten (and this too shall pass)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jliptzin 4y ago

I don't understand why this is a story to begin with. Twitter is a private company that does what it wants. It can boot or block whoever or whatever story they want to for whatever reason. Obviously if the people running the site lean towards one political direction, that's going to affect their moderation policies. Why don't we analyze Fox News's decision to run or not run certain stories. People's first mistake is getting their news from Twitter, or Fox News for that matter. This is not a free speech issue. If you are interested in the Hunter Biden story there are about 300 other sources you could find information about it within about 1/2 a second, it was one of the most widely reported stories in 2020 if I remember correctly. I guess the story is that the people that ran Twitter were left leaning? Which we already knew going into it?

tekknik 4y ago
> It can boot or block whoever or whatever story they want to for whatever reason. We discussed this years ago when it first started. When you’re the defacto town square then no, you shouldn’t be able to kick people out for whatever reason. > Why don't we analyze Fox News's decision to run or not run certain stories. How do you justify the left ignoring stories in their media? For instance the story about Chase Staub. > People's first mistake is getting their news from Twitter, or Fox News for that matter. There’s always an assumption it’s Fox. Try WSJ. > This is not a free speech issue. Very much disagree. Ask yourself why you’re so upset at this information. Or if you’re not upset, ask why there is so much anxiety around this story. Clearly some the left are concerned about what this will result in. > I guess the story is that the people that ran Twitter were left leaning? Which we already knew going into it? Yes and that’s a problem when they use their political viewpoints to control the conversation.
- jliptzin 4y ago
  I’m not upset, I’m just amused. It’s always amazing to me when “free market” conservatives complain about private companies making private decisions that they don’t like. I go on Twitter maybe 5 minutes a month. There are dozens of other “town squares” and if you think twitter is the only one you’re on there way too much. Has anyone been arrested or imprisoned for running the Hunter Biden laptop story? Has any government authority threatened anyone with arrest for running the Hunter Biden story? No? Then not a free speech issue. Twitter is not a government agency. Don’t like their moderation practices? Start your own twitter which is exactly what Trump did and is the correct response. He can then push or censor whatever stories he wants and people decide whether or not they want to traffic on that site. That is the beauty of the free market we play in. If Fox wants to be the propaganda arm of the Republican Party while masquerading as news, good for them. If Elon wants to unban everyone on Twitter and let everything go unfettered with no moderation, good for him. There are lots of other choices out there. None of this is new or interesting. This seems like more of a school cafeteria food fight than any kind of “free speech” issue.

lazyeye 4y ago

It's amazing how easy it is for the media to make something a conspiracy theory, no matter how important or factual. Just dont talk about it. Effortless.