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Investors don't invest if there are no shares to get. And, there are no shares to get. And that's the whole point of Mozilla's existence. Thus, there's only su

by zobzu 15y ago

Investors don't invest if there are no shares to get. And, there are no shares to get. And that's the whole point of Mozilla's existence. Thus, there's only such deals and donations. An investor would therefore need to donate, to support Mozilla.

cpeterso 15y ago
I think nl was suggesting that investors could raise money to buy Firefox's search spot and then create a search engine. Imagine if some VC firm raised $301M to outbid Google and then signed a deal with DuckDuckGo.
- bobthebee 15y ago
  If DuckDuckGo could really make $301+ M on search in Firefox, they would bid that. Reality, they can't. There is no value created in the imagined middle man investor.
nl 15y ago
1) Create a company 2) Bid $300 million for Mozilla's search spot. 3) Raise $600 million, build search engine 4) Profit (Yeah, in practice steps 2 and 3 would need to happen simultaneously)
- dextorious 15y ago
  Profit how? From your search engine? 99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. It's not like anybody has made a competent enough search engine yet...
  - nl 15y ago
    99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. I assume you can back that up somehow? Most evidence I've seen indicates that the majority of people don't change defaults. It's not like anybody has made a competent enough search engine yet http://blekko.com/ http://blekko.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ http://www.gigablast.com/ http://www.gigablast.com/ http://www.yandex.com/ http://www.yandex.com/ http://www.baidu.com/ http://www.baidu.com/ There would be more if there was an easy way around the distribution problem. Becoming the default search engine in Firefox would sure help with that problem.
    - dextorious 15y ago
      """99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. I assume you can back that up somehow? Most evidence I've seen indicates that the majority of people don't change defaults."""" Then the evidence you've seen is wrong. If people "don't change defaults" how come they switched to FF in the first place, which is not the default browser on Windows, but is (or rather, was until it lost to Chrome) an extremely popular windows browser? Maybe naive users don't change defaults, but those users are sticking with (duh) the default IE. Users that moved to FF are more likely to change defaults. Also, they won't even have to change the default: they just navigate to google.com and search from there, instead of using the search in the toolbar with this unfamiliar "Bing" thing. """http://blekko.com/ http://blekko.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ (...) """ Note the use of the word: "competent". None has results that good that make people actually want to switch to it. (For example, DDG's main selling point is privacy). The only example I agree with, Baidu was made from a similar algorithm to Google's and with a remarkably similar history (RankDex vs PageRank etc). And even that is mainly popular in China for national/cultural/political reasons, methinks.
      - nl 15y ago
        So is your argument that Google should have paid nothing to be the default search engine, because people will switch, or is it that $300 million is an appropriate about for the 1% that won't change the default? (Btw, why do you quote like that? HN docs on formatting are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc)
        dextorious 15y ago
        """So is your argument that Google should have paid nothing to be the default search engine, because people will switch, or is it that $300 million is an appropriate about for the 1% that won't change the default?""" No, "my argument" was on the topic of the comment I specifically responded to. You know, where you said that by getting the FF default search && making your own search engine, you'll "profit". To which I responded something akin to: "bollocks --even if you do that, FF users will just switch search engine back to Google". It wasn't that hard to follow, check it again. """(Btw, why do you quote like that? HN docs on formatting are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc) Ever noticed how the "HN docs on formatting" say NOTHING about quoting? "Italics", which you use, is not for quoting is for emphasis. Other people use your method, other people use ">", I use mine.

by zobzu 15y ago

cpeterso 15y ago

I think nl was suggesting that investors could raise money to buy Firefox's search spot and then create a search engine. Imagine if some VC firm raised $301M to outbid Google and then signed a deal with DuckDuckGo.

bobthebee 15y ago
If DuckDuckGo could really make $301+ M on search in Firefox, they would bid that. Reality, they can't. There is no value created in the imagined middle man investor.

nl 15y ago

1) Create a company 2) Bid $300 million for Mozilla's search spot. 3) Raise $600 million, build search engine 4) Profit (Yeah, in practice steps 2 and 3 would need to happen simultaneously)

dextorious 15y ago
Profit how? From your search engine? 99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. It's not like anybody has made a competent enough search engine yet...
- nl 15y ago
  99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. I assume you can back that up somehow? Most evidence I've seen indicates that the majority of people don't change defaults. It's not like anybody has made a competent enough search engine yet http://blekko.com/ http://blekko.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ http://www.gigablast.com/ http://www.gigablast.com/ http://www.yandex.com/ http://www.yandex.com/ http://www.baidu.com/ http://www.baidu.com/ There would be more if there was an easy way around the distribution problem. Becoming the default search engine in Firefox would sure help with that problem.
  - dextorious 15y ago
    """99% of FF users would just switch to Google as soon as they install it. I assume you can back that up somehow? Most evidence I've seen indicates that the majority of people don't change defaults."""" Then the evidence you've seen is wrong. If people "don't change defaults" how come they switched to FF in the first place, which is not the default browser on Windows, but is (or rather, was until it lost to Chrome) an extremely popular windows browser? Maybe naive users don't change defaults, but those users are sticking with (duh) the default IE. Users that moved to FF are more likely to change defaults. Also, they won't even have to change the default: they just navigate to google.com and search from there, instead of using the search in the toolbar with this unfamiliar "Bing" thing. """http://blekko.com/ http://blekko.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ http://duckduckgo.com/ (...) """ Note the use of the word: "competent". None has results that good that make people actually want to switch to it. (For example, DDG's main selling point is privacy). The only example I agree with, Baidu was made from a similar algorithm to Google's and with a remarkably similar history (RankDex vs PageRank etc). And even that is mainly popular in China for national/cultural/political reasons, methinks.
    - nl 15y ago
      So is your argument that Google should have paid nothing to be the default search engine, because people will switch, or is it that $300 million is an appropriate about for the 1% that won't change the default? (Btw, why do you quote like that? HN docs on formatting are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc)
      - dextorious 15y ago
        """So is your argument that Google should have paid nothing to be the default search engine, because people will switch, or is it that $300 million is an appropriate about for the 1% that won't change the default?""" No, "my argument" was on the topic of the comment I specifically responded to. You know, where you said that by getting the FF default search && making your own search engine, you'll "profit". To which I responded something akin to: "bollocks --even if you do that, FF users will just switch search engine back to Google". It wasn't that hard to follow, check it again. """(Btw, why do you quote like that? HN docs on formatting are here: http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc http://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc) Ever noticed how the "HN docs on formatting" say NOTHING about quoting? "Italics", which you use, is not for quoting is for emphasis. Other people use your method, other people use ">", I use mine.