4 ms·

If you want TikTok banned in the US because they don't have proper data hygiene and you believe that data could be used by the CCP in the future that is fair.

If you want TikTok banned in the US because they don't have proper data hygiene and you believe that data could be used by the CCP in the future that is fair. If you want TikTok banned in the US because you believe that they promote dumb content as part of some strategic Chinese plot and you conveniently ignore Meta and Google, I'm going to assume that your reasoning comes from irrational fear of the Chinese. It doesn't make sense to distrust the Chinese when they are doing the same thing as Americans (unless you don't like them just because they are Chinese).

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
The first one. I agree with your second point.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  I would argue that the better solution to the first problem is to set strict data hygiene standards to which all social media companies must adhere. The fact that TikTok has ties to the CCP is simply another data point supporting the need for such regulations.
philliphaydon 4y ago
You seem to try to make everyone sound racist by calling everything Chinese rather than single out the government. People here don’t hate Chinese people. They hate the CCP.
- chrischen 4y ago
  Trying to single out the government from the people is a convenient way to justify an anti-China stance. Have you even considered the fact that even if the majority of Chinese may not like their own government, that doesn't mean they support yours?
  - philliphaydon 4y ago
    At the end of the day calling everything anti China and racist is just a way of deflecting and trying to justify what the government is doing. No one is here defending their own government. Most people in most countries will freely admit when their governments do stuff that’s wrong. But only CCP shills are here defending the CCP and trying to justify genocide, cross border arrests, mass censorship, etc etc. For the record. Do I support my government being the NZ government. Nope. They are trying to pass some laws to prevent the next government from being able to roll anything back. Cement the things they implement even if the citizens disagree.
    - chrischen 4y ago
      Yes so you don’t fully support the NZ government, but you are still a subject of and supporter of (through taxes or even maybe just plain apathy even) of the New Zealand government. And so in this way you can’t say the Chinese people are completely separate from their government, because at the end of the day they are paying taxes and letting their government do these things you object to.
      - kortilla 4y ago
        So what? He doesn’t call everyone racist who criticizes the actions of the NZ government. It seems to only be CCP shills that struggle with this concept. Nobody in the US gets confused when someone from Europe complains about US government military actions and calls them racist. Perhaps you too can learn that criticisms of the CCP have nothing to do with the Chinese citizens?
        chrischen 4y ago
        > So what? He doesn’t call everyone racist who criticizes the actions of the NZ government. It seems to only be CCP shills that struggle with this concept. You’ve subtly insinuated that anyone pointing out some criticism of China must be calling everyone racist. Has it occurred to you that some are indeed racist? In fact it is not OP pointing out the poster is racist, but they explained why such random allegations can be construed as racist. It is in fact his detractors who are attacking his motivation at a personal level (calling him a CCP shill) and trying to discredit his valid viewpoint without offering any reasoning. There’s no evidence—nor is it even a good hypothesis—that somehow Tiktok is actively trying to subvert American society by feeding it garbage content. Such a conclusion is only reachable if you have an inherent bias that the motives in China towards the West are always evil. As others pointed out America produces and consumes garbage content well before TikTok… as well as companies like Meta literally copying tiktok features in shoveling garbage content… so twisting this narrative to antagonize and reframe China as the bad actor—at least in this specific case—is one rooted in inherent bias and laziness. Have you considered that the difference is simply because the Chinese government, with their well known heavy handed authoritarianism, simply not allowing TikTok to do that within China? Is western society so flawless that it is unwilling to accept its own failures that it must accuse others of active subterfuge instead? I won’t argue with you about this anymore at a fundamental level because the issue at hand is that you are among many blindly discrediting and disregarding opposition. So I’ll ask you this for your own contemplation: is it even possible to say something or make an argument that just coincidentally isn’t anti CCP that doesn’t get us labeled as a CCP shill? If you’re going to answer avoid personal attacks and avoid “CCP shill” because that is not using any “facts” and is just a blind attempt to discredit the arguments being made. No one called anyone a racist. Some arguments and ideas were labeled sinophobic but no one made the accusation that a person must be sinophobic and therefore their ideas must be as well. But you are doing exactly that, but instead calling us CCP shills…
- okasaki 4y ago
  The CCP has 97 million members and broad public support (in b4 "the Chinese don't know what's good for them") There are probably ways to "hate the CCP" without hating Chinese people, but it's difficult to see how.
  - alexschnapp 4y ago
    "Broad public support" There is absolutely no basis to this claim unless there's an alternative party to compare to
    - okasaki 4y ago
      So, they don't know what's good for them?
      - alexschnapp 4y ago
        I never said that. What do you mean by they don't know? What are they going to do even if they did know? It's not like they can (short of an armed rebellion) demand to have another political party or government. It's like saying a thug is robbing me at gunpoint so I give him my wallet. You only observe that I give my wallet therefore giving that guy my wallet was good for me and fail to observe the gun.
_tik_ 4y ago
I agree with both of your points. This reminds me while visiting the holocaust museum. The guide explained similar conspiracy popular believe that Jews have a great secret plan to poison European society. I assumed this kind of thinking is commons in Xenophobic situations either subconsciously or un subconsciously.
- mlindner 4y ago
  People criticize Israel all the time. Criticizing the state (Israel) is unrelated to criticizing the people (Jewish). Similiarly for China, criticizing the state is not the same as criticizing the Chinese. And adding on, there's multiple types of Chinese people. There's Chinese in America, Chinese in Taiwan and Chinese in many other countries. No one fears "the Chinese" that's just CCP government brainwashing to try to trick innocent people such as yourself that any criticism of the party is xenophobia/sinophobia. The Russian government has been actively doing it during the war in Ukraine, trying to accuse all of Europe and the US for having "Russophobia". Turns out autocrats rhyme with each other.
  - _tik_ 4y ago
    How can you tell whether they hate the govt or xonophobe? Some racists use the same excuse to justify their behavior. There is some CCP scheme to use TikTok to turn American society lazyand teach some Stems sounds very conspiracy to me. Paranoia and conspiracy thinking are the symptoms of xenophobia. In my home country, Youtube recommendations are mostly related to porn and I have to use VPN to access good-quality content on Netflix. Should I assume the US want to turn my countrymen stupid and horny. Or should I use my critical thinking youtube recomend things that are popular in my Country.
    - mlindner 4y ago
      > How can you tell whether they hate the govt or xonophobe? Some racists use the same excuse to justify their behavior. Most xenophobes tend to be pretty clear what their opinions are and rarely deny them. Also occam's razor applies. Why assume that they're xenophobic when they repeatedly deny being xenophobic and say that they don't like the chinese government (which is the more rational opinion to take)? Ask such people what they think about Chinese people and it'll become rather clear whether their viewpoints come from xenophobia or not. > In my home country, Youtube recommendations are mostly related to porn and I have to use VPN to access good-quality content on Netflix. Should I assume the US want to turn my countrymen stupid and horny. Or should I use my critical thinking youtube recomend things that are popular in my Country. That sounds like a "you problem". Youtube in general does not have much porn. If you're being recommended it somehow then you or someone who shares an ip address with you has been actively searching it and it has narrowed it's suggestions to suit your "interests". Also this tiktok issue is a reverse situation. Tiktok shows one thing to China and something else to every other country. It's not just the US.
mlindner 4y ago
> I'm going to assume that your reasoning comes from irrational fear of the Chinese. Where do you get get these ideas when people repeatedly tell you that it's not the case?

2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago

The first one. I agree with your second point.

babypuncher 4y ago
I would argue that the better solution to the first problem is to set strict data hygiene standards to which all social media companies must adhere. The fact that TikTok has ties to the CCP is simply another data point supporting the need for such regulations.

philliphaydon 4y ago

You seem to try to make everyone sound racist by calling everything Chinese rather than single out the government. People here don’t hate Chinese people. They hate the CCP.

chrischen 4y ago
Trying to single out the government from the people is a convenient way to justify an anti-China stance. Have you even considered the fact that even if the majority of Chinese may not like their own government, that doesn't mean they support yours?
- philliphaydon 4y ago
  At the end of the day calling everything anti China and racist is just a way of deflecting and trying to justify what the government is doing. No one is here defending their own government. Most people in most countries will freely admit when their governments do stuff that’s wrong. But only CCP shills are here defending the CCP and trying to justify genocide, cross border arrests, mass censorship, etc etc. For the record. Do I support my government being the NZ government. Nope. They are trying to pass some laws to prevent the next government from being able to roll anything back. Cement the things they implement even if the citizens disagree.
  - chrischen 4y ago
    Yes so you don’t fully support the NZ government, but you are still a subject of and supporter of (through taxes or even maybe just plain apathy even) of the New Zealand government. And so in this way you can’t say the Chinese people are completely separate from their government, because at the end of the day they are paying taxes and letting their government do these things you object to.
    - kortilla 4y ago
      So what? He doesn’t call everyone racist who criticizes the actions of the NZ government. It seems to only be CCP shills that struggle with this concept. Nobody in the US gets confused when someone from Europe complains about US government military actions and calls them racist. Perhaps you too can learn that criticisms of the CCP have nothing to do with the Chinese citizens?
      - chrischen 4y ago
        > So what? He doesn’t call everyone racist who criticizes the actions of the NZ government. It seems to only be CCP shills that struggle with this concept. You’ve subtly insinuated that anyone pointing out some criticism of China must be calling everyone racist. Has it occurred to you that some are indeed racist? In fact it is not OP pointing out the poster is racist, but they explained why such random allegations can be construed as racist. It is in fact his detractors who are attacking his motivation at a personal level (calling him a CCP shill) and trying to discredit his valid viewpoint without offering any reasoning. There’s no evidence—nor is it even a good hypothesis—that somehow Tiktok is actively trying to subvert American society by feeding it garbage content. Such a conclusion is only reachable if you have an inherent bias that the motives in China towards the West are always evil. As others pointed out America produces and consumes garbage content well before TikTok… as well as companies like Meta literally copying tiktok features in shoveling garbage content… so twisting this narrative to antagonize and reframe China as the bad actor—at least in this specific case—is one rooted in inherent bias and laziness. Have you considered that the difference is simply because the Chinese government, with their well known heavy handed authoritarianism, simply not allowing TikTok to do that within China? Is western society so flawless that it is unwilling to accept its own failures that it must accuse others of active subterfuge instead? I won’t argue with you about this anymore at a fundamental level because the issue at hand is that you are among many blindly discrediting and disregarding opposition. So I’ll ask you this for your own contemplation: is it even possible to say something or make an argument that just coincidentally isn’t anti CCP that doesn’t get us labeled as a CCP shill? If you’re going to answer avoid personal attacks and avoid “CCP shill” because that is not using any “facts” and is just a blind attempt to discredit the arguments being made. No one called anyone a racist. Some arguments and ideas were labeled sinophobic but no one made the accusation that a person must be sinophobic and therefore their ideas must be as well. But you are doing exactly that, but instead calling us CCP shills…
okasaki 4y ago
The CCP has 97 million members and broad public support (in b4 "the Chinese don't know what's good for them") There are probably ways to "hate the CCP" without hating Chinese people, but it's difficult to see how.
- alexschnapp 4y ago
  "Broad public support" There is absolutely no basis to this claim unless there's an alternative party to compare to
  - okasaki 4y ago
    So, they don't know what's good for them?
    - alexschnapp 4y ago
      I never said that. What do you mean by they don't know? What are they going to do even if they did know? It's not like they can (short of an armed rebellion) demand to have another political party or government. It's like saying a thug is robbing me at gunpoint so I give him my wallet. You only observe that I give my wallet therefore giving that guy my wallet was good for me and fail to observe the gun.

_tik_ 4y ago

I agree with both of your points. This reminds me while visiting the holocaust museum. The guide explained similar conspiracy popular believe that Jews have a great secret plan to poison European society. I assumed this kind of thinking is commons in Xenophobic situations either subconsciously or un subconsciously.

mlindner 4y ago
People criticize Israel all the time. Criticizing the state (Israel) is unrelated to criticizing the people (Jewish). Similiarly for China, criticizing the state is not the same as criticizing the Chinese. And adding on, there's multiple types of Chinese people. There's Chinese in America, Chinese in Taiwan and Chinese in many other countries. No one fears "the Chinese" that's just CCP government brainwashing to try to trick innocent people such as yourself that any criticism of the party is xenophobia/sinophobia. The Russian government has been actively doing it during the war in Ukraine, trying to accuse all of Europe and the US for having "Russophobia". Turns out autocrats rhyme with each other.
- _tik_ 4y ago
  How can you tell whether they hate the govt or xonophobe? Some racists use the same excuse to justify their behavior. There is some CCP scheme to use TikTok to turn American society lazyand teach some Stems sounds very conspiracy to me. Paranoia and conspiracy thinking are the symptoms of xenophobia. In my home country, Youtube recommendations are mostly related to porn and I have to use VPN to access good-quality content on Netflix. Should I assume the US want to turn my countrymen stupid and horny. Or should I use my critical thinking youtube recomend things that are popular in my Country.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    > How can you tell whether they hate the govt or xonophobe? Some racists use the same excuse to justify their behavior. Most xenophobes tend to be pretty clear what their opinions are and rarely deny them. Also occam's razor applies. Why assume that they're xenophobic when they repeatedly deny being xenophobic and say that they don't like the chinese government (which is the more rational opinion to take)? Ask such people what they think about Chinese people and it'll become rather clear whether their viewpoints come from xenophobia or not. > In my home country, Youtube recommendations are mostly related to porn and I have to use VPN to access good-quality content on Netflix. Should I assume the US want to turn my countrymen stupid and horny. Or should I use my critical thinking youtube recomend things that are popular in my Country. That sounds like a "you problem". Youtube in general does not have much porn. If you're being recommended it somehow then you or someone who shares an ip address with you has been actively searching it and it has narrowed it's suggestions to suit your "interests". Also this tiktok issue is a reverse situation. Tiktok shows one thing to China and something else to every other country. It's not just the US.

mlindner 4y ago

> I'm going to assume that your reasoning comes from irrational fear of the Chinese. Where do you get get these ideas when people repeatedly tell you that it's not the case?