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I'm not sure if this claim is true or not, but the person in your first reference is Andrew Schulz. He's a comedian who has already come out to say that he made

I'm not sure if this claim is true or not, but the person in your first reference is Andrew Schulz. He's a comedian who has already come out to say that he made all that up, and the media just ran with it [0]. [0]: https://youtube.com/shorts/tAV3QkzHC5E https://youtube.com/shorts/tAV3QkzHC5E

gjsman-1000 4y ago
So he made it up thinking it was fake - but now it has been independently shown to be likely true. In which case he made up a conspiracy theory then demonstrated to be accurate when he thought it was a joke. https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-passes-sweeping-recommendation-algorithm-regulations-effect-march-1-2022/ https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-passes-sweeping-re... https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-between-tik-tok-in-china-and-the-us https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-betwe... CBS 60 Minutes Interview with an IT expert just 3 weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY
- croes 4y ago
  Sounds more like the west gets the standard social media version. Just like YouTube and FB algorithms do serve you more of the same no matter how stupid it is. The Chinese get the version with government enforcement of science and patriotism. Freedom vs. Dictatorship.
- bjourne 4y ago
  I looked up their so-called "IT expert". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Harris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Harris A bachelor in "ethics of human persuasion" doesn't make one an IT expert.
- nemothekid 4y ago
  The claim isn't fake. But the idea that this is some TikTok plot to poison America is ridiculous and sinophobic. Douyin is happy show low brow garbage to Chinese netizens, just like chinese gaming companies were happy to let teens play video games 24/7. The difference is the Chinese government won't let them. America could easily do what China did here: enforce regulations on what kind of content social media companies can show minors. Just banning TikTok won't prevent Instagram from running the same playbook on Reels, it's not like Instagram has been the standard for teen mental health in the past 10 years. Douyin isn't educational in China due to the goodness of their hearts, it came from regulation. The issue is, good luck trying to enforce any sort of corporate regulation in the US.
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    Exactlty. Everyone's freaking out over TikTok while conveniently ignoring the fact that our own social media companies have been doing the exact same shit for over a decade now. This is why I reject any talk of regulating TikTok that doesn't apply equally to all social media.
  - Firebrand 4y ago
    Bytedance even publicly denounced Tencent last year after a VP compared Douyin’s content to pig feed: https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3136168/tiktok-owner-bytedance-blasts-tencent-over-comments-pig-feed-short https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3136168/tiktok-ow... It’s all the same crap being served.
  - 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
    > sinophobic How?
    - babypuncher 4y ago
      For some reason, everyone wants to hold TikTok to a higher standard than our own social media companies. Facebook, Instagram, et al have been running by the same playbook as TikTok for over a decade, but somehow the impact this has on adolescents only became a concern when the company doing it is Chinese. If you want to lessen the impact of this crap on your kids, then you need to pass regulations that prevent all social media companies from doing it. Just banning the foreign ones does nothing but artificially prop up Facebook.
    - nemothekid 4y ago
      If you are concerned about the content that American's consume, there is no reason to single out TikTok. Instagram has been shoving the same garbage into the feeds of teenagers for nearly a decade and Reels is nearly exact clone of TikTok. There is little "educational" content on Instagram Reels. The solution would be regulate all the social media companies, like how China does. If the problem is solely TikTok, then it most likely stems from the fact you don't like TikTok is owned by the Chinese (and you are more likely to believe nefarious claims that Xi Jinping personally told the TikTok CEO to make America dumber) which is sinophobic. You don't like TikTok just because it's a chinese company serving you the same garbage as an American one. I believe there are valid reasons to ban TikTok, especially on state-owned devices, given the amount of data they exfiltrate, but "they are poisoning the American youth" is not a good one.
- dmix 4y ago
  So in China the algorithm is partially regulated, but in the rest of the world the algorithm (asia, europe, africa, americas) is just showing people what they want? Instead of what they government thinks is best for them?
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  One note on that sourcing: I would not generally find Deseret News (i.e. Mormon cultural-industrial-habits-porn outlet) a credible source in this context. I also design productivity systems as part of my job, and found that watching TikTok in the laziest way possible can be an outstanding part of such a system. We are long past the Horatio Alger bootstrapping days where we condemn procrastination and laziness out of hand. And yet Chinese government culture continues to try to speak with that always-on productivity-porn voice--fine, let them do it, see how it works out. They love to wax poetic about theoretical human machinery without giving attention to a reasonable duty cycle concept. And keep in mind that they are simultaneously blocking a lot of that E-word they hate: Expression. We now have much more deep, nuanced experience with productivity that exists and outperforms outside of that context. IMO TikTok is better feared (if that's the lens) for the more rational, non-propagandistic reasons.
  - bdowling 4y ago
    > I would not generally find Deseret News ... a credible source in this context. Deseret News isn't the source, their article just paraphrases from other sources (60 Minutes, Wall Street Journal, BBC).
  - freedomben 4y ago
    Why wouldn't Deseret News be credible in this context?
    - themodelplumber 4y ago
      A combination of factors. History, ownership, culture & region, other personal experiences with contributors. Those of us who were raised with this publication held over our heads grew up, checked it out, and do not hold it lightly in our considerations...in the right context it may be fine at face value but this is not one of those. (Look up the name too. It has "old school industry/productivity concept" in its blood, even just as a general point of interest)
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
eternalban 4y ago
Somewhere in the back of your mind neon lights should be flashing Oh no, we're too late!
emodendroket 4y ago
As US confrontation with China has become more open, the evidentiary standard for any stories about China has headed toward North Korea levels, where we constantly read about people being executed in baroque ways before a couple months before they make new public appearances, apparently risen from the dead.
- throwawayhx 4y ago
  Oh come on. China has basically been getting a pass from Western media for their concentration camps for Muslims. Probably because nobody on the west wants to look "racist"
  - emodendroket 4y ago
    They've gotten nothing like a "pass;" the issue has received a lot of coverage.
  - dmix 4y ago
    There was plenty of coverage. The western media went as hard as you’d expect them to in response to that story. The fact the western governments had their own balancing acts to maintain and didn’t do much still never stopped the media from being honest about it.
MrPatan 4y ago
Doesn't matter. They could do it, and they are not really a friendly state, if not in a hot war currently. Why would you hand them the capability?

gjsman-1000 4y ago

So he made it up thinking it was fake - but now it has been independently shown to be likely true. In which case he made up a conspiracy theory then demonstrated to be accurate when he thought it was a joke. https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-passes-sweeping-recommendation-algorithm-regulations-effect-march-1-2022/ https://www.china-briefing.com/news/china-passes-sweeping-re... https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-between-tik-tok-in-china-and-the-us https://www.deseret.com/2022/11/24/23467181/difference-betwe... CBS 60 Minutes Interview with an IT expert just 3 weeks ago: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0j0xzuh-6rY

croes 4y ago
Sounds more like the west gets the standard social media version. Just like YouTube and FB algorithms do serve you more of the same no matter how stupid it is. The Chinese get the version with government enforcement of science and patriotism. Freedom vs. Dictatorship.
bjourne 4y ago
I looked up their so-called "IT expert". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Harris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristan_Harris A bachelor in "ethics of human persuasion" doesn't make one an IT expert.
nemothekid 4y ago
The claim isn't fake. But the idea that this is some TikTok plot to poison America is ridiculous and sinophobic. Douyin is happy show low brow garbage to Chinese netizens, just like chinese gaming companies were happy to let teens play video games 24/7. The difference is the Chinese government won't let them. America could easily do what China did here: enforce regulations on what kind of content social media companies can show minors. Just banning TikTok won't prevent Instagram from running the same playbook on Reels, it's not like Instagram has been the standard for teen mental health in the past 10 years. Douyin isn't educational in China due to the goodness of their hearts, it came from regulation. The issue is, good luck trying to enforce any sort of corporate regulation in the US.
- babypuncher 4y ago
  Exactlty. Everyone's freaking out over TikTok while conveniently ignoring the fact that our own social media companies have been doing the exact same shit for over a decade now. This is why I reject any talk of regulating TikTok that doesn't apply equally to all social media.
- Firebrand 4y ago
  Bytedance even publicly denounced Tencent last year after a VP compared Douyin’s content to pig feed: https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3136168/tiktok-owner-bytedance-blasts-tencent-over-comments-pig-feed-short https://www.scmp.com/tech/big-tech/article/3136168/tiktok-ow... It’s all the same crap being served.
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 4y ago
  > sinophobic How?
  - babypuncher 4y ago
    For some reason, everyone wants to hold TikTok to a higher standard than our own social media companies. Facebook, Instagram, et al have been running by the same playbook as TikTok for over a decade, but somehow the impact this has on adolescents only became a concern when the company doing it is Chinese. If you want to lessen the impact of this crap on your kids, then you need to pass regulations that prevent all social media companies from doing it. Just banning the foreign ones does nothing but artificially prop up Facebook.
  - nemothekid 4y ago
    If you are concerned about the content that American's consume, there is no reason to single out TikTok. Instagram has been shoving the same garbage into the feeds of teenagers for nearly a decade and Reels is nearly exact clone of TikTok. There is little "educational" content on Instagram Reels. The solution would be regulate all the social media companies, like how China does. If the problem is solely TikTok, then it most likely stems from the fact you don't like TikTok is owned by the Chinese (and you are more likely to believe nefarious claims that Xi Jinping personally told the TikTok CEO to make America dumber) which is sinophobic. You don't like TikTok just because it's a chinese company serving you the same garbage as an American one. I believe there are valid reasons to ban TikTok, especially on state-owned devices, given the amount of data they exfiltrate, but "they are poisoning the American youth" is not a good one.
dmix 4y ago
So in China the algorithm is partially regulated, but in the rest of the world the algorithm (asia, europe, africa, americas) is just showing people what they want? Instead of what they government thinks is best for them?
themodelplumber 4y ago
One note on that sourcing: I would not generally find Deseret News (i.e. Mormon cultural-industrial-habits-porn outlet) a credible source in this context. I also design productivity systems as part of my job, and found that watching TikTok in the laziest way possible can be an outstanding part of such a system. We are long past the Horatio Alger bootstrapping days where we condemn procrastination and laziness out of hand. And yet Chinese government culture continues to try to speak with that always-on productivity-porn voice--fine, let them do it, see how it works out. They love to wax poetic about theoretical human machinery without giving attention to a reasonable duty cycle concept. And keep in mind that they are simultaneously blocking a lot of that E-word they hate: Expression. We now have much more deep, nuanced experience with productivity that exists and outperforms outside of that context. IMO TikTok is better feared (if that's the lens) for the more rational, non-propagandistic reasons.
- bdowling 4y ago
  > I would not generally find Deseret News ... a credible source in this context. Deseret News isn't the source, their article just paraphrases from other sources (60 Minutes, Wall Street Journal, BBC).
- freedomben 4y ago
  Why wouldn't Deseret News be credible in this context?
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    A combination of factors. History, ownership, culture & region, other personal experiences with contributors. Those of us who were raised with this publication held over our heads grew up, checked it out, and do not hold it lightly in our considerations...in the right context it may be fine at face value but this is not one of those. (Look up the name too. It has "old school industry/productivity concept" in its blood, even just as a general point of interest)
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

eternalban 4y ago

Somewhere in the back of your mind neon lights should be flashing Oh no, we're too late!

emodendroket 4y ago

As US confrontation with China has become more open, the evidentiary standard for any stories about China has headed toward North Korea levels, where we constantly read about people being executed in baroque ways before a couple months before they make new public appearances, apparently risen from the dead.

throwawayhx 4y ago
Oh come on. China has basically been getting a pass from Western media for their concentration camps for Muslims. Probably because nobody on the west wants to look "racist"
- emodendroket 4y ago
  They've gotten nothing like a "pass;" the issue has received a lot of coverage.
- dmix 4y ago
  There was plenty of coverage. The western media went as hard as you’d expect them to in response to that story. The fact the western governments had their own balancing acts to maintain and didn’t do much still never stopped the media from being honest about it.

MrPatan 4y ago

Doesn't matter. They could do it, and they are not really a friendly state, if not in a hot war currently. Why would you hand them the capability?