> there's not really any such thing except in our heads I disagree. When my father's used car lot went under, that was a massive failure of planning and leader

> there's not really any such thing except in our heads I disagree. When my father's used car lot went under, that was a massive failure of planning and leadership, sending my family into a financial spiral with effects felt for decades. There was no upside here. Hell, he ended up in jail briefly as a result of the debacle. There's definitely such a thing as failure. That said, I agree that the poster's mindset seems to be doing them no favors here. Sounds like they've always been paid, they've done good work, they've broadened and deepened their engineering experience. As long as they can still find a job there are worse things than this kind of failure.