4 ms·

> It dials up the expectations of others who are in the same employment pool as you. It hurts future generations of workers by eroding the expectation of work-l

> It dials up the expectations of others who are in the same employment pool as you. It hurts future generations of workers by eroding the expectation of work-life balance that we are lucky enough to have achieved in our industry. > > To me, it is pretty clear: if you put your extra time into for-profit work, you suck. What an odd perspective. I was brought up to recognize that hard work and going above and beyond what was expected is admirable and will get you appreciation, recognition, and advancement. Voluntarily doing work that you think needs doing because you want to be valued isn't bad, it's a life lesson. I got my first software testing job by going above and beyond my menial mailroom duties. I got my first software engineering job by going above and beyond my testing duties. I got all my promotions, bonuses, and stock grants and more than a few job offers by consistently doing more than I had to do. If there's a project that I'm enthusiastic enough about to want to spend a weekend working on it? Hell yes, I'm going to do it, and I'm going to enjoy myself without worrying that someone else thinks I'm raising expectations beyond the bare minimum. Maybe someone with that attitude just isn't offering as much to an employer and they should get comfy with the idea of others outperforming them.

kdmccormick 4y ago
I should be clear that I am talking about expectations of time, not expectations of effort or competance. I work 40 hours a week, no more. (If paid overtime were a thing at my company, I might do more. But it's not.) I bust my ass during those 40. Sometimes I work on personal side projects in my free time for fun or to sharpen my skills. If you want to be promoted, I'd rather you work harder and smarter, not more. If a coworker of mine got promoted because they worked weekends, I would actually be pretty frustrated at them.
- heleninboodler 4y ago
  Try to recognize that there are people who would rather work more than harder and that's ok. You provide your value and I'll provide mine. To be frank, I'm not sure I'm capable of working harder, but the occasional weekend project because you're fired up about the goals or the challenge is exhilarating. For you to think you can dictate that I shouldn't ever do that seems kind of selfish to me. PS: how dare you work harder than me! You're raising the bar and that's not fair! ;)
  - ilyt 4y ago
    > Try to recognize that there are people who would rather work more than harder and that's ok. I don't understand that at all. You'd rather work 60 and 20 of that slack instead of 40 ? Why would you want to have less time for hobbies/family ?
    - heleninboodler 4y ago
      Well, first off, I haven't put any numbers on it, so 60 hours is made up. Second, I'm not saying I'm going to "slack" during the 40 and waste 20 hours, I'm just talking about doing a normal job (with a normal amount of slacking interspersed. Let's not ignore that I'm posting on HN during my standard business hours at this very moment). And third, I am capable of adjusting how much time I need for hobbies and family on any given day, and sometimes I'll happily trade a saturday with hobbies or family to do some good work. I honestly don't know what it would be like to have a job that I never ever felt passionate enough about to willingly put in a little extracurricular time. It sounds horrible.
- factsarelolz 4y ago
  You don't work 40 full hours a week. No one actually _works_ every single minute of a 40 hour work week. There's lunch for one, bathroom breaks, interruptions by coworkers, meetings that they may not even need you in, etc, etc.

kdmccormick 4y ago

I should be clear that I am talking about expectations of time, not expectations of effort or competance. I work 40 hours a week, no more. (If paid overtime were a thing at my company, I might do more. But it's not.) I bust my ass during those 40. Sometimes I work on personal side projects in my free time for fun or to sharpen my skills. If you want to be promoted, I'd rather you work harder and smarter, not more. If a coworker of mine got promoted because they worked weekends, I would actually be pretty frustrated at them.

heleninboodler 4y ago
Try to recognize that there are people who would rather work more than harder and that's ok. You provide your value and I'll provide mine. To be frank, I'm not sure I'm capable of working harder, but the occasional weekend project because you're fired up about the goals or the challenge is exhilarating. For you to think you can dictate that I shouldn't ever do that seems kind of selfish to me. PS: how dare you work harder than me! You're raising the bar and that's not fair! ;)
- ilyt 4y ago
  > Try to recognize that there are people who would rather work more than harder and that's ok. I don't understand that at all. You'd rather work 60 and 20 of that slack instead of 40 ? Why would you want to have less time for hobbies/family ?
  - heleninboodler 4y ago
    Well, first off, I haven't put any numbers on it, so 60 hours is made up. Second, I'm not saying I'm going to "slack" during the 40 and waste 20 hours, I'm just talking about doing a normal job (with a normal amount of slacking interspersed. Let's not ignore that I'm posting on HN during my standard business hours at this very moment). And third, I am capable of adjusting how much time I need for hobbies and family on any given day, and sometimes I'll happily trade a saturday with hobbies or family to do some good work. I honestly don't know what it would be like to have a job that I never ever felt passionate enough about to willingly put in a little extracurricular time. It sounds horrible.
factsarelolz 4y ago
You don't work 40 full hours a week. No one actually _works_ every single minute of a 40 hour work week. There's lunch for one, bathroom breaks, interruptions by coworkers, meetings that they may not even need you in, etc, etc.