4 ms·

education system should have different objectives than "get already powerful and wealthy people and make them more wealthy and powerful", so I don't think that

education system should have different objectives than "get already powerful and wealthy people and make them more wealthy and powerful", so I don't think that Harvard "figured it out"

HDThoreaun 4y ago
Harvard is a private institution. You don't get to set their priorities.
- tester756 4y ago
  I'm not saying Harvard needs to change. I've been arguing that standardized tests are best available method (at scale) because they're at least fair and transparent.
  - alistairSH 4y ago
    standardized tests are best available method (at scale) because they're at least fair and transparent. Transparent, maybe. Fair? As noted above, test success is largely a measure of a student's access to resources and parental support. And the usual retort to that assertion is that study books are free at the library, to which I'd respond "if it's that easy, what is the test really measuring?" Anyways, the main discussion was the insane number of admin staff on campus. Admissions staff is only a small slice of that.
    - tester756 4y ago
      > And the usual retort to that assertion is that study books are free at the library, to which I'd respond "if it's that easy, what is the test really measuring?" Internet and that's not very high bar. I've personally mostly used it when preparing for math exams. >to which I'd respond "if it's that easy, what is the test really measuring?" Access to informations at the level of those tests isn't difficult. What's being measured? how proficient you are at tested topics, how good your knowledge is. >Transparent, maybe. Fair? As noted above, test success is largely a measure of a student's access What's more fair then? Those tests are as possibly fair as we can get.
  - HDThoreaun 4y ago
    What does fair mean? I'm pretty sure that harvard is fairly putting together the student body must likely to become rich and powerful. Standardized tests have very little impact on ones likeliness to have a successful business or political career. Just accepting the fastest people might be the fairest way to win NCAA track meets, but that isn't their goal, so it's not how they run admissions.
    - tester756 4y ago
      >What does fair mean? For example with 0 or as little human factor as possible, without biases. >Standardized tests have very little impact on ones likeliness to have a successful business or political career. I'm not saying standardized tests are good proxy for being businessman or politician. They're fair and transparent way that allows people to bootstrap themselves. Even if you're poor ass, then you have access to Internet and can learn all those things good enough to get to the top schools.
      - HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Ok but if you're just looking for fair and transparent why not take the 2000 fastest 40 yard dash times in world? Certainly a fair and transparent way for poor people to bootstrap themselves into top schools.
        tester756 4y ago
        Because this is educational institution So I'm using fair and transparent metrics proxying for learning capabilities, knowledge (in topics related to degrees) , etc, etc?
        HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Ah so you see my point. Using fair and transparent metrics that don't measure the right thing isn't useful. Harvard isn't looking for learning capabilities, knowledge (in topics related to degrees). They're looking for people that will be successful and accrue money/power.

education system should have different objectives than "get already powerful and wealthy people and make them more wealthy and powerful", so I don't think that Harvard "figured it out"

HDThoreaun 4y ago

Harvard is a private institution. You don't get to set their priorities.

tester756 4y ago
I'm not saying Harvard needs to change. I've been arguing that standardized tests are best available method (at scale) because they're at least fair and transparent.
- alistairSH 4y ago
  standardized tests are best available method (at scale) because they're at least fair and transparent. Transparent, maybe. Fair? As noted above, test success is largely a measure of a student's access to resources and parental support. And the usual retort to that assertion is that study books are free at the library, to which I'd respond "if it's that easy, what is the test really measuring?" Anyways, the main discussion was the insane number of admin staff on campus. Admissions staff is only a small slice of that.
  - tester756 4y ago
    > And the usual retort to that assertion is that study books are free at the library, to which I'd respond "if it's that easy, what is the test really measuring?" Internet and that's not very high bar. I've personally mostly used it when preparing for math exams. >to which I'd respond "if it's that easy, what is the test really measuring?" Access to informations at the level of those tests isn't difficult. What's being measured? how proficient you are at tested topics, how good your knowledge is. >Transparent, maybe. Fair? As noted above, test success is largely a measure of a student's access What's more fair then? Those tests are as possibly fair as we can get.
- HDThoreaun 4y ago
  What does fair mean? I'm pretty sure that harvard is fairly putting together the student body must likely to become rich and powerful. Standardized tests have very little impact on ones likeliness to have a successful business or political career. Just accepting the fastest people might be the fairest way to win NCAA track meets, but that isn't their goal, so it's not how they run admissions.
  - tester756 4y ago
    >What does fair mean? For example with 0 or as little human factor as possible, without biases. >Standardized tests have very little impact on ones likeliness to have a successful business or political career. I'm not saying standardized tests are good proxy for being businessman or politician. They're fair and transparent way that allows people to bootstrap themselves. Even if you're poor ass, then you have access to Internet and can learn all those things good enough to get to the top schools.
    - HDThoreaun 4y ago
      Ok but if you're just looking for fair and transparent why not take the 2000 fastest 40 yard dash times in world? Certainly a fair and transparent way for poor people to bootstrap themselves into top schools.
      - tester756 4y ago
        Because this is educational institution So I'm using fair and transparent metrics proxying for learning capabilities, knowledge (in topics related to degrees) , etc, etc?
        HDThoreaun 4y ago
        Ah so you see my point. Using fair and transparent metrics that don't measure the right thing isn't useful. Harvard isn't looking for learning capabilities, knowledge (in topics related to degrees). They're looking for people that will be successful and accrue money/power.