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This is true. I will post a post-mortem on it as some point in the next month. But I can confirm that we are shutting it down: https://mastodon.gamedev.place

This is true. I will post a post-mortem on it as some point in the next month. But I can confirm that we are shutting it down: https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@BenHouston3D/109445706917253009 https://mastodon.gamedev.place/@BenHouston3D/109445706917253... We (Exocortex.com) started Clara.io in 2012, launched it in 2013. But we stopped work on it in 2015. We then launched Threekit.com, which was originally built upon Clara.io tech, but then we rebuilt the tech stack to better suit the commercial product visualization market needs. Eventually Exocortex renamed itself Threekit as it was a viable future. Under the Threekit brand we have raised $65M and have grown to 100 employees. So the company behind Clara.io, Exocortex, has grown and is succeeding, but Clara.io never really made any money in its original mission as an online 3D editor. It is filled with +1M free users. We kept it running for 7 years after we had stopped development, but at some point you have to call it. It is hard to keep such an old tech stack running (it used pre 1.0 Node.js originally and still uses a highly modified 2012-era Backbone.js as React hadn't been invented yet.)

famahar 4y ago
So every 3D model not downloaded by the end of the year will disappear? 100000+ models that can help hobbyist creators build their dream project. I'm sure there are archivists that would gladly save them all so others can use them, but 1 month is quite a deadline. It's sad to see such a large amount of resources just disappearing
tomcam 4y ago
Reading through your answers I’m hugely impressed by your honesty and forthrightness. Hoping Threekit gets huge.
tomp 4y ago
Why not open-source it?
- Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
  Nothing to add on Clara.io. However, just wanted to state that Ben Houston is/was one of the more prolific three.js contributors (https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/graphs/contributors https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/graphs/contributors) and consistently pushed three.js in a better direction. Thank you!
  - bhouston 4y ago
    Thanks! In many ways Mrdoob's Three.js was critical to Clara.io working. His leadership of Three.js over the past decade has transformed online 3D. And the community around Three.js was critical to it actually working. WebGL was so buggy on devices in 2013-2015 that it was only through joint community effort that we were about to work around those device-specific bugs.
    - techsavygamer0 4y ago
      Hey Ben - thoughts on WebGPU support, and the potential for a web-based metaverse?
      - bhouston 4y ago
        I think success in a web-based metaverse isn't likely dependent upon technology, but rather figuring out how to appeal to users. But Rust/WASM+WebGPU can be very efficient. But building your own engine from scratch is not a minor undertaking.
- bhouston 4y ago
  Fun fact, a lot of it is open source, just not where you would expect it. During the creation of Clara.io I created over 200 PRs to Three.js: https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Abhouston+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3A... Open sourcing it wholesale at this point is a challenge because parts of the tech stack became parts of Threekit.com. Threekit.com is VC funded and an ongoing business operation. I do what I can with open source still, see: https://github.com/bhouston/behave-graph https://github.com/bhouston/behave-graph https://github.com/threeify/threeify https://github.com/threeify/threeify
- MuffinFlavored 4y ago
  If 20,000 people are using it a month, why not ask some of them to pay?
  - bhouston 4y ago
    We did. https://clara.io/pricing https://clara.io/pricing. It was incredibly ineffective.
    - brutus1213 4y ago
      Thank you for being so forthright. I'm curious if you considered lowering the price to where it became stupidly obvious for a user to get. E.g. 1 dollar a month (or year). I recall Whatsapps early pricing model where I'd never pay for a paid messaging app personally, but since it was free the first whole year and 1 dollar a year after, it seemed essentially free. When I see something that's 10 dollars a month (100 w/ year discount), I think of the higher number as the price (x1.5-x2). I can see the danger of devaluing the product, not covering costs, etc. but am curious if a price point between free and monthly exists .. ultra-good-value? Use that to bring in some recurring revenue, and grow from that base. If you have thoughts on this, would appreciate hearing them.
      - bhouston 4y ago
        I think the main issue was that we were very popular with students and dabblers. They were not using our tool to make money. Thus they were not very easy to provide value that would justify them paying. It just a horrible market to serve if you want to make any money.
stevage 4y ago
Wow, a million users of something that hasn't been worked on in 7 years? How many are active?
- bhouston 4y ago
  20K in the last month. We have a lot of hit and run users who mostly just want to download something from the 3D model library at https://clara.io/library https://clara.io/library BTW here is what free users are editing right now: https://clara.io/library?gameCheck=&public=&filter=&sort=-modifiedAt https://clara.io/library?gameCheck=&public=&filter=&sort=-mo...
mrtksn 4y ago
Wouldn't someone be interested in taking over? The domain name itself should be worth something too, it's a beautiful name.
- bhouston 4y ago
  Name of my first daughter, Clara, who was born roughly around the time of launch. :)
danrocks 4y ago
I wish I could pay you a beer to hear the whole story in person.

famahar 4y ago

So every 3D model not downloaded by the end of the year will disappear? 100000+ models that can help hobbyist creators build their dream project. I'm sure there are archivists that would gladly save them all so others can use them, but 1 month is quite a deadline. It's sad to see such a large amount of resources just disappearing

tomcam 4y ago

Reading through your answers I’m hugely impressed by your honesty and forthrightness. Hoping Threekit gets huge.

tomp 4y ago

Why not open-source it?

Benjamin_Dobell 4y ago
Nothing to add on Clara.io. However, just wanted to state that Ben Houston is/was one of the more prolific three.js contributors (https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/graphs/contributors https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/graphs/contributors) and consistently pushed three.js in a better direction. Thank you!
- bhouston 4y ago
  Thanks! In many ways Mrdoob's Three.js was critical to Clara.io working. His leadership of Three.js over the past decade has transformed online 3D. And the community around Three.js was critical to it actually working. WebGL was so buggy on devices in 2013-2015 that it was only through joint community effort that we were about to work around those device-specific bugs.
  - techsavygamer0 4y ago
    Hey Ben - thoughts on WebGPU support, and the potential for a web-based metaverse?
    - bhouston 4y ago
      I think success in a web-based metaverse isn't likely dependent upon technology, but rather figuring out how to appeal to users. But Rust/WASM+WebGPU can be very efficient. But building your own engine from scratch is not a minor undertaking.
bhouston 4y ago
Fun fact, a lot of it is open source, just not where you would expect it. During the creation of Clara.io I created over 200 PRs to Three.js: https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3Abhouston+is%3Aclosed https://github.com/mrdoob/three.js/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3A... Open sourcing it wholesale at this point is a challenge because parts of the tech stack became parts of Threekit.com. Threekit.com is VC funded and an ongoing business operation. I do what I can with open source still, see: https://github.com/bhouston/behave-graph https://github.com/bhouston/behave-graph https://github.com/threeify/threeify https://github.com/threeify/threeify
MuffinFlavored 4y ago
If 20,000 people are using it a month, why not ask some of them to pay?
- bhouston 4y ago
  We did. https://clara.io/pricing https://clara.io/pricing. It was incredibly ineffective.
  - brutus1213 4y ago
    Thank you for being so forthright. I'm curious if you considered lowering the price to where it became stupidly obvious for a user to get. E.g. 1 dollar a month (or year). I recall Whatsapps early pricing model where I'd never pay for a paid messaging app personally, but since it was free the first whole year and 1 dollar a year after, it seemed essentially free. When I see something that's 10 dollars a month (100 w/ year discount), I think of the higher number as the price (x1.5-x2). I can see the danger of devaluing the product, not covering costs, etc. but am curious if a price point between free and monthly exists .. ultra-good-value? Use that to bring in some recurring revenue, and grow from that base. If you have thoughts on this, would appreciate hearing them.
    - bhouston 4y ago
      I think the main issue was that we were very popular with students and dabblers. They were not using our tool to make money. Thus they were not very easy to provide value that would justify them paying. It just a horrible market to serve if you want to make any money.

stevage 4y ago

Wow, a million users of something that hasn't been worked on in 7 years? How many are active?

bhouston 4y ago
20K in the last month. We have a lot of hit and run users who mostly just want to download something from the 3D model library at https://clara.io/library https://clara.io/library BTW here is what free users are editing right now: https://clara.io/library?gameCheck=&public=&filter=&sort=-modifiedAt https://clara.io/library?gameCheck=&public=&filter=&sort=-mo...

mrtksn 4y ago

Wouldn't someone be interested in taking over? The domain name itself should be worth something too, it's a beautiful name.

bhouston 4y ago
Name of my first daughter, Clara, who was born roughly around the time of launch. :)

danrocks 4y ago

I wish I could pay you a beer to hear the whole story in person.