4 ms·

Seems like it would probably be a bigger win to put a 100kwh pack in and create a modular generator package. A lot of the polluting big rigs do is particulate m

Seems like it would probably be a bigger win to put a 100kwh pack in and create a modular generator package. A lot of the polluting big rigs do is particulate matter when accelerating. Using batteries as the buffer between power generation and power consumption would do a lot of good. Being able to run different kinds of small 20-80hp generators at their max efficiency RPM would be great. And if it were a reasonably sized module different folks could compete to make different highly efficient generator packages running on gas, diesel, CNG or LNG, ammonia, DME, hydrogen, ethanol, or whatever.

dogma1138 4y ago
There are a few startups that are doing carbon capture for trucks the closest to a market solution is probably https://remoracarbon.com/ https://remoracarbon.com/ they also have an interesting business model where they offload the CO2 and sell it off and have a profit sharing with the truck/fleet operator. It doesn’t solve all emissions problems like NOx and other particulates but it’s a good step and likely we will be seeing both electrified trucks for short hauls and carbon capture for long hauls and for more efficient reuse of existing vehicles.
LinuxBender 4y ago
I think you are describing a hybrid. The power company at my previous location had hybrid rigs for working on high voltage [1]. There are also hybrid fire engines. [2] [1] - https://www.pge.com/mybusiness/environment/pge/fleets/ https://www.pge.com/mybusiness/environment/pge/fleets/ [2] - https://chargedevs.com/newswire/los-angeles-fire-department-unveils-hybrid-fire-truck/ https://chargedevs.com/newswire/los-angeles-fire-department-...
Robotbeat 4y ago
No? A hybrid powertrain is really expensive by itself, requires a more expensive-per-kWh battery pack, and has little efficiency advantage over an optimally geared Diesel engine in cruise, as it’s already running optimally. And you’re only making a marginal improvement in CO2 emissions. All the synth fuels are much more expensive than electricity.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- msandford 4y ago
  Right but even the 'diesel in cruise' is still less common than you'd think. There are hills up and down, there's passing, there are bridges, headwinds and tailwinds, etc. Required power is different if you're fully loaded vs partially vs empty vs no trailer. Even on interstates there are towns every 50-100mi that have their own traffic and thus non-cruise speeds. If the exception to cruise is only 0.1% then I agree it's dumb to consider. If it's 10% or more and the emissions during non cruise are significantly worse, it could end up accounting for 30-40% of total emissions instead of just 10%
jeffbee 4y ago
So, a hybrid truck? You can just buy those from Volvo or Scania right now. The problem is it does nothing to gratify the ego of America's foremost megalomaniac.
- Robotbeat 4y ago
  It also does almost nothing to reduce emissions since the emissions benefit of a hybrid over a well-geared diesel truck is negligible.
  - jeffbee 4y ago
    In long haul service, but in local service it can easily double the fuel efficiency and eliminate particulates that diesels generate in transient operation.
    - Robotbeat 4y ago
      But then why tow around that huge, expensive engine if you’re not using it? Tesla makes a 300 mile Semi as well. A 100kWh hybrid battery would experience a lot harsher cycling conditions than a larger battery in a pure electric Semi would.
      - jeffbee 4y ago
        I guess it's a question you'd need to ask the 1000s of customers who have bought existing HEV and PHEV trucks, not me. There's clearly some niche for them. Anyway if we're going to talk about "dragging around" something then obviously the main thing we are going to discuss is 5 tons of dead batteries, not a teensy little diesel drivetrain that maybe weighs 1 ton or less.
        Robotbeat 4y ago
        The idea that extra battery capacity is “dead weight” is a common misconception that belies a common ignorance about the electrical and chemical properties of batteries. For a given chemistry and power and voltage, doubling a battery’s capacity will halve the battery’s internal resistance, thus improving its charge and discharge efficiency (as well as increasing the maximum charge and discharge power). It also halves the “C-rate,” thus allows it to last more cycles… and because the size is doubled, the number of miles per cycle also doubles. You can also afford to operate the battery with much larger margins, in its optimal state of charge, going from 75% to 25% state of charge, instead of hammering it from 100% to 0% (which would quickly wear it out, not even counting the difference in C-rate). Sure, this still needs to be balanced with weight and cost, but a larger battery than you strictly need is NOT, in any way, merely “dead weight” in the way the ICE engine and fuel tank is in a PHEV like the Volt when I drove it for 6 months at a time while never using the engine.
DesiLurker 4y ago
Thats a series hybrid idea. they are already doing that, however, car industry has been exceptionally poor in making a efficiency optimized generator mostly because their R&D depts have been tweaking engines that operate over a big rpm range to send power directly to wheels. the design gets much simpler if you are making a high efficiency generator. recently companies like Aquarius have done some work on that. That said, the main utility for hybrids is in stop&go situations where gas engine has to operate over a large RPM range and energy is essentially lost in stopping. In case of big rigs I actually agree that you need full electrification (or maybe ammonia/H2 engine IFF conversion efficiency to carrier is high). We 'just' need to get the battery energy density up 30-40%. Quite doable IMO.

dogma1138 4y ago

There are a few startups that are doing carbon capture for trucks the closest to a market solution is probably https://remoracarbon.com/ https://remoracarbon.com/ they also have an interesting business model where they offload the CO2 and sell it off and have a profit sharing with the truck/fleet operator. It doesn’t solve all emissions problems like NOx and other particulates but it’s a good step and likely we will be seeing both electrified trucks for short hauls and carbon capture for long hauls and for more efficient reuse of existing vehicles.

LinuxBender 4y ago

I think you are describing a hybrid. The power company at my previous location had hybrid rigs for working on high voltage [1]. There are also hybrid fire engines. [2] [1] - https://www.pge.com/mybusiness/environment/pge/fleets/ https://www.pge.com/mybusiness/environment/pge/fleets/ [2] - https://chargedevs.com/newswire/los-angeles-fire-department-unveils-hybrid-fire-truck/ https://chargedevs.com/newswire/los-angeles-fire-department-...

Robotbeat 4y ago

No? A hybrid powertrain is really expensive by itself, requires a more expensive-per-kWh battery pack, and has little efficiency advantage over an optimally geared Diesel engine in cruise, as it’s already running optimally. And you’re only making a marginal improvement in CO2 emissions. All the synth fuels are much more expensive than electricity.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
msandford 4y ago
Right but even the 'diesel in cruise' is still less common than you'd think. There are hills up and down, there's passing, there are bridges, headwinds and tailwinds, etc. Required power is different if you're fully loaded vs partially vs empty vs no trailer. Even on interstates there are towns every 50-100mi that have their own traffic and thus non-cruise speeds. If the exception to cruise is only 0.1% then I agree it's dumb to consider. If it's 10% or more and the emissions during non cruise are significantly worse, it could end up accounting for 30-40% of total emissions instead of just 10%

jeffbee 4y ago

So, a hybrid truck? You can just buy those from Volvo or Scania right now. The problem is it does nothing to gratify the ego of America's foremost megalomaniac.

Robotbeat 4y ago
It also does almost nothing to reduce emissions since the emissions benefit of a hybrid over a well-geared diesel truck is negligible.
- jeffbee 4y ago
  In long haul service, but in local service it can easily double the fuel efficiency and eliminate particulates that diesels generate in transient operation.
  - Robotbeat 4y ago
    But then why tow around that huge, expensive engine if you’re not using it? Tesla makes a 300 mile Semi as well. A 100kWh hybrid battery would experience a lot harsher cycling conditions than a larger battery in a pure electric Semi would.
    - jeffbee 4y ago
      I guess it's a question you'd need to ask the 1000s of customers who have bought existing HEV and PHEV trucks, not me. There's clearly some niche for them. Anyway if we're going to talk about "dragging around" something then obviously the main thing we are going to discuss is 5 tons of dead batteries, not a teensy little diesel drivetrain that maybe weighs 1 ton or less.
      - Robotbeat 4y ago
        The idea that extra battery capacity is “dead weight” is a common misconception that belies a common ignorance about the electrical and chemical properties of batteries. For a given chemistry and power and voltage, doubling a battery’s capacity will halve the battery’s internal resistance, thus improving its charge and discharge efficiency (as well as increasing the maximum charge and discharge power). It also halves the “C-rate,” thus allows it to last more cycles… and because the size is doubled, the number of miles per cycle also doubles. You can also afford to operate the battery with much larger margins, in its optimal state of charge, going from 75% to 25% state of charge, instead of hammering it from 100% to 0% (which would quickly wear it out, not even counting the difference in C-rate). Sure, this still needs to be balanced with weight and cost, but a larger battery than you strictly need is NOT, in any way, merely “dead weight” in the way the ICE engine and fuel tank is in a PHEV like the Volt when I drove it for 6 months at a time while never using the engine.

DesiLurker 4y ago

Thats a series hybrid idea. they are already doing that, however, car industry has been exceptionally poor in making a efficiency optimized generator mostly because their R&D depts have been tweaking engines that operate over a big rpm range to send power directly to wheels. the design gets much simpler if you are making a high efficiency generator. recently companies like Aquarius have done some work on that. That said, the main utility for hybrids is in stop&go situations where gas engine has to operate over a large RPM range and energy is essentially lost in stopping. In case of big rigs I actually agree that you need full electrification (or maybe ammonia/H2 engine IFF conversion efficiency to carrier is high). We 'just' need to get the battery energy density up 30-40%. Quite doable IMO.