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I understand the point being made, but this is fundamentally naive and counter-productive for everyone who wants to be working in this industry as a software en

I understand the point being made, but this is fundamentally naive and counter-productive for everyone who wants to be working in this industry as a software engineer. Engineers are going to get exploited: just shrugging and saying "but we get paid well enough" means stuff like this: https://hirecloud.io/hr-and-recruiting-news/the-techtopus-how-silicon-valleys-most-celebrated-ceos-conspired-to-drive-down-100000-tech-engineers-wages/ https://hirecloud.io/hr-and-recruiting-news/the-techtopus-ho... will continue to happen over, and over, and over. So, unfortunately, your post encourages what the ones at the top with all the capital love: getting the rest of us fight over the scraps. Because the truth is that it's all scraps to them, and that's how they want to keep it.

tylersmith 4y ago
People like the OP are not fighting for scraps, they're doing what they love and enjoying their lives while getting scraps. People that don't enjoy doing that stuff resent them because they have to compete at stuff like they don't like to do for scraps. That's only a negative for one side.
- aks_tldr 4y ago
  Until people like OP wake up one day and see what they been doing in name of "love", it all comes crashing down. been there done that.
lumenwrites 4y ago
Shouldn't people be free to make up their own minds and make their own choices? If someone likes that work environment - great, let them work very hard on interesting and meaningful projects, these are the kind of people Elon Musk seems to want to leave at twitter. People who don't like this kind of work environment are free to leave for companies more focused on work-life balance.
- ddellacosta 4y ago
  I may be trying to persuade, but I'm not being prescriptive. I'm just stating the logical outcome of behaving based on the thinking in the post I was responding to.
CamperBob2 4y ago
Fighting over scraps isn't the best way to see it, IMO. If I'm busting my ass at a job, it's because I share the vision (if not the capital) of the people I'm working for, want to see that vision executed, and want to take an active part in executing it well. If that is not the case, it doesn't matter how much I'm being paid, I'm not going to be happy ("self-actualized") for long. Likewise, whether I work 40 or 60 hours a week has no bearing on this. I imagine quite a few people joined Twitter because they believed in the company's stated mission and the vision of its founder. The mission and vision have now changed, so it's appropriate for some of those people to move on, voluntarily or otherwise. Framing it as some kind of Marxist class struggle sheds no light on the issue, and isn't helpful in the least.
- ddellacosta 4y ago
  > I share the vision (if not the capital) of the people I'm working for, want to see that vision executed, and want to take an active part in executing it well. If that is not the case, it doesn't matter how much I'm being paid, I'm not going to be happy ("self-actualized") for long This can and should be a condition on top of respecting yourself enough to expect that you are paid for the time you work and have the freedom to establish a good work-life balance based on those hours. Assuming for one second that the folks running the business--if they are any good at it--think about you in anything other than economic terms at the end of the day is simply foolish.

tylersmith 4y ago

People like the OP are not fighting for scraps, they're doing what they love and enjoying their lives while getting scraps. People that don't enjoy doing that stuff resent them because they have to compete at stuff like they don't like to do for scraps. That's only a negative for one side.

aks_tldr 4y ago
Until people like OP wake up one day and see what they been doing in name of "love", it all comes crashing down. been there done that.

lumenwrites 4y ago

Shouldn't people be free to make up their own minds and make their own choices? If someone likes that work environment - great, let them work very hard on interesting and meaningful projects, these are the kind of people Elon Musk seems to want to leave at twitter. People who don't like this kind of work environment are free to leave for companies more focused on work-life balance.

ddellacosta 4y ago
I may be trying to persuade, but I'm not being prescriptive. I'm just stating the logical outcome of behaving based on the thinking in the post I was responding to.

CamperBob2 4y ago

Fighting over scraps isn't the best way to see it, IMO. If I'm busting my ass at a job, it's because I share the vision (if not the capital) of the people I'm working for, want to see that vision executed, and want to take an active part in executing it well. If that is not the case, it doesn't matter how much I'm being paid, I'm not going to be happy ("self-actualized") for long. Likewise, whether I work 40 or 60 hours a week has no bearing on this. I imagine quite a few people joined Twitter because they believed in the company's stated mission and the vision of its founder. The mission and vision have now changed, so it's appropriate for some of those people to move on, voluntarily or otherwise. Framing it as some kind of Marxist class struggle sheds no light on the issue, and isn't helpful in the least.

ddellacosta 4y ago
> I share the vision (if not the capital) of the people I'm working for, want to see that vision executed, and want to take an active part in executing it well. If that is not the case, it doesn't matter how much I'm being paid, I'm not going to be happy ("self-actualized") for long This can and should be a condition on top of respecting yourself enough to expect that you are paid for the time you work and have the freedom to establish a good work-life balance based on those hours. Assuming for one second that the folks running the business--if they are any good at it--think about you in anything other than economic terms at the end of the day is simply foolish.