6 ms·

The other part of an installer's job is to provide a reliable way to uninstall the program, without leaving any mess behind. I think that's the main reason I'm

The other part of an installer's job is to provide a reliable way to uninstall the program, without leaving any mess behind. I think that's the main reason I'm reluctant to run curl|bash-ware. I might trust the authors not to be malicious, but I generally wouldn't trust them to be competent at cleaning up after themselves.

user3939382 4y ago
> a reliable way to uninstall the program, without leaving any mess behind cc: Anyone working on macOS
- dagmx 4y ago
  Uninstalling macOS apps is usually as simple as removing the app bundle.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    If only that were true. Apps leave their config and support files all over the file system.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
      Also true of literally every OS, on the inherited wisdom that separating the config from the actual application allows it to persist through upgrades and reinstalls easily. There are certainly other ways to do that, but this is how it has been done since forever.
      - user3939382 4y ago
        Windows uninstall isn't guaranteed* to be perfect but it's much better in this regard. It's common on Windows to have uninstaller apps that go around cleaning up the crumbs of the application. The equivalent on macOS isn't unheardof but it's rare.
        forgotpwd16 4y ago
        >It's common on Windows to have uninstaller apps that go around cleaning up the crumbs of the application. In my experience what is common will be the inverse of that. And leaving config files spread throughout the system is one thing. Sometimes the uninstaller doesn't even remove the Program Files directory leaving it behind with cache, tmp files, etc. (Things that shouldn't even be there in first place but anyway.)
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        I assure you that the vast majority of Windows software leaves config files and registry entries behind when uninstalled.
        thunderbong 4y ago
        A proper uninstaller actually gives even this as an option though
    - ilyt 4y ago
      Right but few kbs of config is less of a bother than few hundred megs of deps installed all over the place. The config and data is iffy situation because you might want to uninstall just to install new version, and so might want them to stay, might want them gone.
bravetraveler 4y ago
Precisely, if this is the suggested distribution method then I have to assume there's been even less investment in 'undistribution' It's possible for installers to be this full-featured, but it's plagued with footguns. They try and often fail to make an idempotent shellrc patcher with command line pipes, or something equally convoluted. If at all. Instead of using something established, or even better... drop-in config directories. Not everything needs to own (or even touch) the main config file! edit: Don't trust the 'curl the script before piping it' thing, either. I don't have it handy, but there's been demonstrated means to alter the content based on timing, causing the pipe to be a malicious payload
simiones 4y ago
Yes, having a proper method for uninstalling is one big advantage of "proper" installers (like .deb packages or .msi installers on Windows) - though of course there is no guarantee even then that it will properly clean-up the system. However, having a package that simply installs some files and then tells you "copy these lines to your .bashrc and modify this mount file and [...]" to set up your system is really not that much better - if you follow those instructions, it will be up to you to manually un-follow them if you later decide to stop using this package. And while whoever wrote the installer may or may not properly undo what what they installed in the uninstaller, I can guarantee that no one will provide an uninstaller which un-does changes you manually made.
ilyt 4y ago
It's almost admission of guilt, nobody ever thinks about that uninstall. Even workse if app starts with sudo to install some stuff in system directories

user3939382 4y ago

> a reliable way to uninstall the program, without leaving any mess behind cc: Anyone working on macOS

dagmx 4y ago
Uninstalling macOS apps is usually as simple as removing the app bundle.
- user3939382 4y ago
  If only that were true. Apps leave their config and support files all over the file system.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
    Also true of literally every OS, on the inherited wisdom that separating the config from the actual application allows it to persist through upgrades and reinstalls easily. There are certainly other ways to do that, but this is how it has been done since forever.
    - user3939382 4y ago
      Windows uninstall isn't guaranteed* to be perfect but it's much better in this regard. It's common on Windows to have uninstaller apps that go around cleaning up the crumbs of the application. The equivalent on macOS isn't unheardof but it's rare.
      - forgotpwd16 4y ago
        >It's common on Windows to have uninstaller apps that go around cleaning up the crumbs of the application. In my experience what is common will be the inverse of that. And leaving config files spread throughout the system is one thing. Sometimes the uninstaller doesn't even remove the Program Files directory leaving it behind with cache, tmp files, etc. (Things that shouldn't even be there in first place but anyway.)
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
        I assure you that the vast majority of Windows software leaves config files and registry entries behind when uninstalled.
        thunderbong 4y ago
        A proper uninstaller actually gives even this as an option though
  - ilyt 4y ago
    Right but few kbs of config is less of a bother than few hundred megs of deps installed all over the place. The config and data is iffy situation because you might want to uninstall just to install new version, and so might want them to stay, might want them gone.

bravetraveler 4y ago

Precisely, if this is the suggested distribution method then I have to assume there's been even less investment in 'undistribution' It's possible for installers to be this full-featured, but it's plagued with footguns. They try and often fail to make an idempotent shellrc patcher with command line pipes, or something equally convoluted. If at all. Instead of using something established, or even better... drop-in config directories. Not everything needs to own (or even touch) the main config file! edit: Don't trust the 'curl the script before piping it' thing, either. I don't have it handy, but there's been demonstrated means to alter the content based on timing, causing the pipe to be a malicious payload

simiones 4y ago

Yes, having a proper method for uninstalling is one big advantage of "proper" installers (like .deb packages or .msi installers on Windows) - though of course there is no guarantee even then that it will properly clean-up the system. However, having a package that simply installs some files and then tells you "copy these lines to your .bashrc and modify this mount file and [...]" to set up your system is really not that much better - if you follow those instructions, it will be up to you to manually un-follow them if you later decide to stop using this package. And while whoever wrote the installer may or may not properly undo what what they installed in the uninstaller, I can guarantee that no one will provide an uninstaller which un-does changes you manually made.

ilyt 4y ago

It's almost admission of guilt, nobody ever thinks about that uninstall. Even workse if app starts with sudo to install some stuff in system directories